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No, we are not even close to having that. Most medical expense is unnecessary or counterproductive or does little good.
That is done to avoid lawsuits.
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There is zero evidence anywhere that health screening in its entirety saves a nickel--it is a raw waste. Routine annual physicals? Waste. The insurance companies have no problem with paying and paying for customary but stupid expenses. As long as they all pay, they all have more money running through their company, which means more profit.
When I say death panels, I mean death panels. If 70% of the people aren't pissed off by its decisions, it is not doing the job.
Sorry, my mistake, I thought you wanted a serious conversation.
If you oppose health care reform (the inferior Obamacare, or much preferred single-payer model), please list your reasons for doing so.
I oppose universal health care as a right for every American citizen because:
1.
2.
3.
Good luck.
1. Healthcare isn't a right. We as a nation realize it's in the best interest of society to have a healthy population, but it isn't a "right".
2. Obamacare is nothing more than regular insurance with higher rates for many offset by a welfare coupon for people who can't afford the deductibles even though they are now "covered".
3. The only way it works in other counties is via a regressive tax structure. Everyone benefits and everyone pays. The liberals want me and other high income and wealthy people to pay while they pay nothing at the same time they defend importing millions and millions of Mexicans and Central Americans to do work they deem beneath them. F that.
3. The only way it works in other counties is via a regressive tax structure. Everyone benefits and everyone pays. The liberals want me and other high income and wealthy people to pay while they pay nothing and at the same time they defend importing millions and millions of Mexicans and Central Americans to do work they deem beneath them. F that.
Bingo! That's exactly why we can't have Universal Health Care here in the U.S.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,143,759 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp
I support a balanced Budget. I support the 2nd amendment (and all of our other rights). I am pro-life. I believe in securing our borders....does that make me a liberal? Just wondering.
We pay for it by bringing the troops home. All of them. We pay for it buy ridding the government of duplicity, waste and fraud. We pay for it by addressing the cost side. We have to make sure that at some point everyone has to contribute in some way at some point.
I've paid my taxes also and I would prefer to see them go to some good as opposed to building bridges in Afghanistan we blew up the week before, bribing countries like Pakistan and Israel. Lining people's pockets with fraud. etc.
From there we can see where we stand. Again, say "O.K., I will believe it when I see it" and I'll say it again. It is those who want to see this happen that has to make the changes.
LOL.. Pk... I think realistically your more like me. Middle ground socially.. fiscally conservative. I too support a balanced budget, the 2nd and securing our borders. I am pro-choice (choice being the optimal word here). But I'm so fiscally conservative I'd make your head spin.
I have a liberal neighbor. Married to a citizens of Great Britain (but he's a permanent citizen here now but has never relinquished his citizenship there). They keep all their money off shore for the most part. What small income they have here in the states is a pittance. But since she never took her husbands name and they have such a small US income they qualify for SO many government handouts. And she's forever telling me how great government is, how I should pay more for others because it's the right thing to do... on and on. (We've now learned that staying away from political conversations is best and to keep it to neighborhood gardening, etc. ). She just can't understand that my husband and I have worked HARD and long for years to get where we are. That we have made sacrifices that most families couldn't nor wouldn't have to get what we have. Are we rich? Nope. Not in the least. I consider us comfortable. I'm not starving but I also clip coupons. I'm not living in a shack nor a mansion. I'm not driving a beat up jalopy nor a BMW (it's a plain ole Chevy). She's constantly what I consider liberal. One who takes, telling me its good for society, yet unwilling to show me how we're going to pay for things without sticking her hand in someone else's pocket. I'd be more than willing to listen to her if she'd put her hands in her own pocket first.
Sorry, my mistake, I thought you wanted a serious conversation.
You made no mistake. I am serious as a heart attack. If you want universal health care, then all health care decisions will end up being made by bureaucrats.
Just do not act like we can have some semblance of current medical practice on a universal basis. It is not possible and will not happen. Most people will not figure it out until we have...death panels. That's fine with me, because I detest most forms of conventional wisdom, including medical.
No one is telling them to make the conscious decision to become ill, but the natural course of events is that this sometimes happens, and no one can ultimately change that. We do what we can, but there are technologic and financial limitations on it - that's reality.
Financial limitations don't exist. Fiat money is made up. We have the technology to administer health care to all citizens.
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
Facts are facts - and you seem to hate that.
No, I have a good relationship with facts.
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
I will state it again, I do not advocate active denial of anyone getting anything. You want to drive a Mercedes, fine with me. You want to own a private jet, then have at it and enjoy it. Want to see the world? Bon Voyage! Have a dozen kids? Then enjoy the process of procreating! You just need to find a way to pay for it other than raiding my wallet. I have bills of my own to consider and your visit to the dealer/airport/dock/doctor is not in *my* budget.
No one cares about your bills.
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
Why not make contribution to the UHC fund voluntary? Divide the cost of UHC equally (not progressively based on income) amongst all participants. And everyone kicks in (or chooses not to) that amount and will receive benefits according to their contribution. Those who choose not to participate can seek other insurance based on the risk they bring to the pool. Or pay cash.
Because then people who choose not to participate based off their own stupidity will be allowed to die on American streets.
Also, you would complain about that proposal because money is still coming out of your pocket.
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Originally Posted by shiftymh
Not giving someone something is not the same as taking it away. If you'd like to make it a 'right' then cut me a check for food every month.
1. Healthcare isn't a right. We as a nation realize it's in the best interest of society to have a healthy population, but it isn't a "right".
Ok, I'll concede on the semantics.
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Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
2. Obamacare is nothing more than regular insurance with higher rates for many offset by a welfare coupon for people who can't afford the deductibles even though they are now "covered".
Obamacare is not what I was proposing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
3. The only way it works in other counties is via a regressive tax structure. Everyone benefits and everyone pays. The liberals want me and other high income and wealthy people to pay while they pay nothing at the same time they defend importing millions and millions of Mexicans and Central Americans to do work they deem beneath them. F that.
No. Other countries pay for Universal Health Care the same way we would; the government issues an order to the bank to increase the value of the health care provider's checking account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Bingo! That's exactly why we can't have Universal Health Care here in the U.S.
Yea.. IF taxes actually funded government services, which they don't.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,143,759 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard
I have bills of my own to consider and your visit to the dealer/airport/dock/doctor is not in *my* budget.
No one cares about your bills.
See this is where your wrong Opin Yunated. I care about Workin Hard's bills. He/She's paying his own way. He's being responsible. Thinking about their future. Doing what he can. It's people that don't think like that... the irresponsible, the unthinking, the I-don't-give-a-sh*t-crowd that I really could care less about. If Working needs help all he'd need to do is ask, because they wouldn't take advantage and do everything they could to turn it around as soon as possible. What would you do? Stick your hand back in my pocket and clean it out and blame someone else for your trouble and then move on because it's "right" for society?
No. Other countries pay for Universal Health Care the same way we would; the government issues an order to the bank to increase the value of the health care provider's checking account.
Yea.. IF taxes actually funded government services, which they don't.
I support universal health care but arguments like this guarantee us it's not going to happen.
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). She just can't understand that my husband and I have worked HARD and long for years to get where we are. That we have made sacrifices that most families couldn't nor wouldn't have to get what we have. Are we rich? Nope. Not in the least. I consider us comfortable. I'm not starving but I also clip coupons. I'm not living in a shack nor a mansion. I'm not driving a beat up jalopy nor a BMW (it's a plain ole Chevy). She's constantly what I consider liberal. One who takes, telling me its good for society, yet unwilling to show me how we're going to pay for things without sticking her hand in someone else's pocket. I'd be more than willing to listen to her if she'd put her hands in her own pocket first.
