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((Oh yeah? Try resisting arrrest sometime and see what happens.
A police officer has the right to presume your guilt---which is why about one third of the people who will sleep in a jail tonight have never been convicted. They are still waiting for their 'day in court' in order to prove themselves innocent at their own expense---maybe weeks or months from now. If a policemen says "May I search your car?", do you think it is because he presumes you are innocent?
You have never had the right to resist arrest.
Yes, they presume you are guilty based on some probable cause, otherwise you can bring legal action for a false arrest.
The court system is the ultimate decider where the police must prove you guilty, ask OJ.
A police officer needs probable cause to search your car, that's why he's asking.
None of what you just mentioned shows any erosion of your rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
((There are currently 2-million people incarcerated in the US now. How many people in the past year or two do you think have been arrrested, and subsequently either had their charged dismissed, or were given a suspended sentence? Probably at leas 2-million, which means out of every two people a cop arrests, only one of them is judicially deemed to be incarcerated. But they both go to jail.
Yes, police make mistakes, the case of suspended sentence is not indicative of mistakes though. That's the sentencing process. For the others, it sounds like your complaint above is not valid because the charges were dismissed without having to prove innocence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
((Do you have any idea whatsoever what it is like to go to jail? And how much it costs to get out? And what your chances are of being sent there, at least overnight, even if you are not guilty of anything?
Yes to all three.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
((They did not change the law. Americans have ALWAYS been presumed guilty until they prove themselves innocent. Why can't you just say to the judge "Your honor, I'm going home now. Phone me if I'm proven gulity."
No, you must be proven guilty. There are mistakes because the system is run by humans, but again you have not cited any erosion of your rights. You have a right to a fair trial and they must prove you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
As for your phone call question, it happens for lesser offenses. For bigger things, people are held to make sure they return for trial or to make sure that they are not a threat to anyone else. In most cases there is a bail set that depends on the two factors just mentioned.
The "erosion of my rights" that I am citing is that it is now possible/easy because of the so-called "Patrioot Act", followed by the even worse "Military Commissions Act or 2006" for the police to arrest with absolutely no 'probable cause' except imaginary, and detain you forever without even the first glimmer of due process. Everyone has always been incarcerated as if they were guilty until adjudicated to the contrary at their own expense. Under new rules, probable cause is no longer the simple catch-all they always needed, nor is due process a given. This is now the law of the land. It remains to be seen how and if or when it will be abused, but it is available to come down on us all in the middle of some future American Kristalnacht.
The Bill of Rights is not about the rights I have, but about the rights the government does not have. It has been effectively rescinded, and there are now no rights the government does not have.
I've seen people charged under the Patriot Act for actions that had nothing to do with terrorism, the prosecution just couldn't find an appropriate law. I wouldn't be so quick to laugh off giving them an umbrella law to file charges whenever they please.
Yes. This is happening all over the country isn't it. You've got a better chance of being run over by a car.
I'm not convinced we'll 'lose it' anytime soon. So far, we have a pretty good spread of "freedoms" here, and I don't expect it to end anytime soon.
But we WOULD be wise to give it some thought. We are heading steadily toward an ever-expanding group of all sorts of 'rights', special privileges, and considerations for a theoretically unlimited group of endlessly diverse people. At the same time, we are embarked upon a trend toward ever-DECREASING responsibilities and duties.
We have pretty well given up now on doing anything substantial about illegal immigration. For all practical purposes, we no longer require one to be a citizen to live and work here indefinitely. We have no more "draft". We require no loyalty, no form of respect (in fact we allow total DISRESPECT)..there is really nothing I can think of that America REQUIRES of its people.(maybe taxes?). We may get a few people to show up for jury duty, but that's a long shot. Most of us don't vote. NO rational person ever expects our peoplr in high office to be truthful. Lies and deciet are fully expected. We can't even agree on what an American IS--- or why anyone would even want to BE one...
With all that in mind, I think its inevitable that the only way to be sure our nation will hold together at ALL is by force..since we no longer require, or encourage, 'consent'. If our 'civic responsibility' (which we aren't required to excercise) doesn't do it, 'outside force' may have to. And that means laws-- increasingly restrictive laws, limiting our freedoms, 'forcing' our compliance, which we're not willing to limit, or provide, on our own.
When, how, or in what manner this will happen is debatable. But I don't see any other alternative--it's either "self discipline"...or outside force. We just don't have the option to be 300 or 400 million "free and independent spirits"...
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,400,252 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Snake
Yes. This is happening all over the country isn't it. You've got a better chance of being run over by a car.
And I have a 100% chance of dying someday, that doesn't stop me from attempting to make the time I have as good and as long as I can make it.
If accepting things was always the right thing they would have just paid the tax on the tea in Boston and they'd be playing God Save the Queen before NY Yankee cricket matches.
And I have a 100% chance of dying someday, that doesn't stop me from attempting to make the time I have as good and as long as I can make it.
If accepting things was always the right thing they would have just paid the tax on the tea in Boston and they'd be playing God Save the Queen before NY Yankee cricket matches.
Yes...lets compare the Boston Tea Party incident to the mean old Government infringing on my freedom to assemble on the national mall and whine about the President. By golly you're right, I see dark days ahead of for all of us! Hang tight, I'm gonna run to the garage and get my pitchfork and a torch. Were marching!!!
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,400,252 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Snake
Yes...lets compare the Boston Tea Party incident to the mean old Government infringing on my freedom to assemble on the national mall and whine about the President. By golly you're right, I see dark days ahead of for all of us! Hang tight, I'm gonna run to the garage and get my pitchfork and a torch. Were marching!!!
Now I'm scared, I agree with some of what you say. I too see dark days ahead if people become so afraid of their own shadows by buying into the 'commie under every bed' scare tactics that they crawl whimpering into the closet.
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