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Ugh... I'm a democrat who has never voted for a republican in my life. I support a comprehensive immigration bill. But, lately it seems the immigration activists in my party are becoming as polarizing and uncompromising as the anti-immigration forces on the right.
IMO, we need a "grand bargain" on immigration. Both sides will have to suck it up and compromise.
The right needs to acknowledges that:
1) it is impractical to deport 11 million people who are deeply woven into our economy.
2) most unauthorized immigrants are good, hardworking people who came here for the opportunity at a better life for themselves and their children.
But, the left needs to acknowledge that:
1) unauthorized immigrants did knowingly violate the law. They are not innocent victims. We need a legal process to regulate immigration, and the process is meaningless if we don't follow it.
2) low skilled immigration does have high social costs. Low skilled immigrants may work and pay taxes, but they have high poverty rates and have US citizen children who grow up severely disadvantaged. By growing the share of the poor and near poor population, low skilled immigration makes it harder to achieve progressive goals in reducing child poverty, lessening racial economic gaps, and improving educational achievement.
We need a comprehensive immigration plan that: 1) Allows those currently here "illegally" to stay. Legalization for those who came/stayed illegally as adults, citizenship for those who served in the military or came as children. 2) Enforces immigration laws going forward. Make e-verify mandatory and enforce it, restrict the ability of future presidents to take sweeping "executive actions on immigration", ban driver licenses and other such benefits for future illegal immigrants 3) Creates a Canadian-style immigration system that focuses on high skilled immigration. Reserve a small number of visas for low skilled workers. Yes, this isn't what we did 100 years ago. But, we live in knowledge based global economy today where our central challenge is upgrading the skill of the US labor force. We also now have a vast social welfare system that requires a high ratio of upper income workers to support it. (Sure immigrants maybe outside TANF, but the children of low skilled immigrants will need lots of assistance to give them a fair shot at the middle class as adults).
Does anyone think there is much of chance for something like this coming into being?
Points 2 and 3 look good, just a few changes to 1 and I am on board:
1) Encourage those currently here "illegally" to leave. No legalization for those who came/stayed illegally, no citizenship. No need for mass deportations. Make it marginally tougher for illegals to work, rent apartments, open bank accounts, etc. and many will go home voluntarily.
Do whatever it takes to make the illigal bastards go back to the 3rd word hell hole they came from instead of trying to turn our country into the one they left.
Really, there is no need to change the immigration laws at all, just enforce the ones on the books. My wife came here through all legal processes from Colombia. In reality, it was a pain in the butt and took just about 9 month's from the date I petitioned to her arrival as a resident. Blood work, background checks, proof that my income could support her and that she would not be a public charge, interviews at the embassy in Costa Rica where she was living, an extended background check and finally a call to pick up her passport with a 1 time entrance visa. But they just welcome these overstaying, identity steeling theves because people buy into their frikin SOB stories. Personally, I don't give a rats ass about their plight of 30 kids in some ****hole town in Mexico. They can go back.
And this conservative, like many, is not against immigration. Illigals are NOT immigrants. They are not guests. They are worthless thieves bringing crime into our once safe rural areas and taking jobs from citizens and legal residents. They are unwelcome here and need to go home.
Enforce the laws on the books. Deport overstays. Abolish birthright citizenship unless at least one parent is a citizen or legal resident. Place hefty fines on any company that hires an illegal. Who cares if they have to close up shop. And they can start with all the chicken processing plants around me that will only hire Latinos and Hatiens, and they are mostly illegals they and flaunt it as if they are special.
Enforce the laws on the books. Deport overstays. Abolish birthright citizenship unless at least one parent is a citizen or legal resident. Place hefty fines on any company that hires an illegal. Who cares if they have to close up shop. And they can start with all the chicken processing plants around me that will only hire Latinos and Hatiens, and they are mostly illegals they and flaunt it as if they are special.
I agree with this, except don't just fine the companies that hire illegals - put the executives in jail (fines are usually a pittance for those companies, but no matter how wealthy you are you'll feel the pain of incarceration).
No public benefits whatsoever for illegals - if an illegal for example needs medical care the hospital shouldn't screen them out and they'd get reimbursed by the government. But then the government should go after the illegal - either pay up or go back to your home country.
I agree with you about birthright citizenship - for those who support automatic citizenship by being born in the U.S. realize that the link between "physical place of birth" and "nationality at birth" isn't what it was in 1868 (since international travel is now much easier, and with the changing roles of women it is more likely that she'd be overseas on a temporary assignment than back when most women worked either at or close to home); for those reasons many other countries that once had birthright citizenship have done away with it in recent decades. To soothe those who whine about children who spent most of their formative years in the U.S. but aren't citizens I'd make a rule that if you spent a certain amount of the first 18 years of your life (maybe say nine years, a majority of that time) in the U.S. you can apply for citizenship upon request without any tests or screenings once you're an adult. The "at least one parent must be a citizen or permanent resident" rule is consistent with the original intent of the 14th Amendment, since the parents of African-Americans were obviously here legally and residents (albeit as slaves) and the children spent all of their childhood here legally too. (We may not have to even amend the constitution to restrict citizenship to illegals' children, since there's the precedent that Native Americans weren't automatically citizens until 1924, and the amendment does say "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" meaning that if one enters the U.S. under terms other than provided by law you are arguably not under the federal government's jurisdiction.)
Ugh... I'm a democrat who has never voted for a republican in my life. I support a comprehensive immigration bill. But, lately it seems the immigration activists in my party are becoming as polarizing and uncompromising as the anti-immigration forces on the right.
IMO, we need a "grand bargain" on immigration. Both sides will have to suck it up and compromise.
The right needs to acknowledges that:
1) it is impractical to deport 11 million people who are deeply woven into our economy.
2) most unauthorized immigrants are good, hardworking people who came here for the opportunity at a better life for themselves and their children.
But, the left needs to acknowledge that:
1) unauthorized immigrants did knowingly violate the law. They are not innocent victims. We need a legal process to regulate immigration, and the process is meaningless if we don't follow it.
2) low skilled immigration does have high social costs. Low skilled immigrants may work and pay taxes, but they have high poverty rates and have US citizen children who grow up severely disadvantaged. By growing the share of the poor and near poor population, low skilled immigration makes it harder to achieve progressive goals in reducing child poverty, lessening racial economic gaps, and improving educational achievement.
When the Democrats (ie, the left) controlled the Presidency and both Houses of Congress from 2009 to 2011, there was no attempt to repeal immigration regulations. None.
Quote:
We need a comprehensive immigration plan that: 1) Allows those currently here "illegally" to stay. Legalization for those who came/stayed illegally as adults, citizenship for those who served in the military or came as children. 2) Enforces immigration laws going forward. Make e-verify mandatory and enforce it, restrict the ability of future presidents to take sweeping "executive actions on immigration", ban driver licenses and other such benefits for future illegal immigrants 3) Creates a Canadian-style immigration system that focuses on high skilled immigration. Reserve a small number of visas for low skilled workers. Yes, this isn't what we did 100 years ago. But, we live in knowledge based global economy today where our central challenge is upgrading the skill of the US labor force. We also now have a vast social welfare system that requires a high ratio of upper income workers to support it. (Sure immigrants maybe outside TANF, but the children of low skilled immigrants will need lots of assistance to give them a fair shot at the middle class as adults).
Sorry - it's not merely 'the left' that stands in the way of E-Verify.
And current immigration laws do focus on skilled workers. EB-1 through EB-5 immigrant statuses are all preference categories for skilled workers.
Now, there is indeed a middle ground. It's the same ground on which both Democrats and Republicans stood in 1986, when a Democratic House and a Republican Senate passed a comprehensive reform that, yes, legalized millions of immigrants who were here legally. A Republican President signed that bill into law. That was a bi-partisan action. It acknowledged a cold, hard reality and dealt with in practically.
One party still occupies that ground. The other party has completely abandoned it.
The reality is that the border will never be fully secure. Even the Iron Curtain was not entirely secure, and no one who isn't delusional thinks there's every going to be a similar barrier from Brownsville to San Diego. It's a pipe dream on which serious people do not waste their time. And as long as there is a comparatively poorer country to the south of us, people in that country are going to cross the border. The policing of the border is about as good as it is ever going to get now. That's a fact. And we have to be reality based.
Personally, I support a national ID card. But the tinfoil-hat crowd doesn't. And, frankly, nor does the crowd that is incessantly trying to suppress voter turnout by demanding photo IDs to vote. They most certainly do not want everyone to have an ID - that would completely contravene their underlying reason for demanding that one be presented to vote (and that reason isn't the laughable voter-fraud canard).
When both parties want to do something about immigration, something will be done. Now, one party is anything but serious.
Something does need to be done about the immigration problem. America can not absorb the millions of illegals overnight like the Dems are giving the thumbs up to.
Both Reps and Dems are playing with peoples lives here for the sake of what, Future Votes?
My wife immigrated to America and followed the rules and jumped through all the hoops to get her green card. During the process she never once demanded hand outs or demanded any rights like so many illegals do today. How can a group of people who are in this country illegally have rallies. How can they have the presidents ear while he pushes aside struggling citizens.
What is going to happen to the middle/lower skilled workers when the job market is suddenly over loaded with illegal immigrant workers who will work for less? Yes they do this already but when the Gov. puts the big OKAY stamp on the practise watch out.
A agree that most immigrants that come here are seeking a better life for themselves and family but there is also an element that brings crime, disease and other issues and it is those people that need to be weeded out and sent back.
It is pretty sad that our politicians are gambling with the future of America for the sake of votes.
How about legalizing all that are here that don't have a criminal record. At the same time/same hour we would start zero tolerance at the border. No more visitors coming across to shop or work. Anyone that even touches the fence let alone tries to get over it will be shot. 5 year moratorium on immigration from Mexico.
It would have to work both ways. Americans could no longer cross into Mexico. Mexicans could always go back but it would be for good. Commercial trailers would be dropped at the border and picked up by citizens of that country.
It would work but how many would want it to?
It may be hard to believe but this Republican has gotten much more liberal about illegals since I moved to Arizona. It's not that big a deal to me.
We just need to absorb Mexico as our next state and institute taxes and ID. Problem solved and everyone can move around as they need.
Coming here from Mexico is not a walk in the park. If they make it here, let them stay. Unless you're a native, were all immigrants. IMHO, that's what makes this nation so diverse and great.
As a practical matter, it is impossible to secure the borders hermetically. Therefore, if we are serious about preventing illegal immigration then we need to understand why they come to the US in the first place. That, of course, is for economic opportunity. In other words, jobs.
So, the best way to prevent it is to take away the jobs and you do that with heavy fines for the employer and possibly jail time for a subsequent offense. You can add to that fines for people who rent homes to illegals.
The problem is that our politicians don't want to do this because the employers like the cheap labor and the politicians like the contributions these employers make to their re-election funds.
But until you take away the economic incentive you will never put a dent into illegal immigration.
Simply put, I recognize the fact that a great majority of illegal immigrants are harder workers than most Americans and are grateful to be in this country, even as an illegal. But I don't think they should be rewarded for breaking our immigration laws. Like all countries, we have immigration laws and processes for a reason. If you are in this country illegally, be it 6 days or 6 years, you have broken a fundamental LAW!
As much as I would love to just up and move to London, without a job lined up, and hope to collect benefits, I find this expectation to be demanding, co-dependent, arrogant, and disrespectful towards the Britons who have lived in the UK all their lives.
With that said, if I ruled the world, I would grant American citizenship under the followings conditions:
1. must speak the language of the majority of American citizens: English
2. male and females between the ages of 18-40 must serve at least 2 years in the military (show their true allegiance to the USA), something like how Israel and The Netherlands require all citizens to do 2 years in their military.
3. pay a special tax for the next five years to help offset the costs of assimilating illegal people into American society
4. take a citizenship exam - classes will be offered to help them pass
5. Importantly, those selected to be granted American citizenship must not have any felonies on their record here in the states, or in their country of origin.
Are these difficult to obtain? Are these unfair? I don't think so. These are just a few things off the top of my head.
I understand that it is a basic human desire to live someplace where you can have a job and pay for things to live a productive life. But I don't think it's fair to natural citizens to cater to or roll out the red carpet for people who disrespect our laws and sneak into the country in pursuit of a better life. Illegal is illegal, no matter how you candy coat it with semantics and PC language "undocumented". You legally live here or you don't.
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