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Old 06-02-2015, 07:14 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 8,002,180 times
Reputation: 3572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
It's the same with heavily subsidized solar panels. Plumbers and auto mechanics are helping doctors and lawyers save money with solar panels.

But the Dems are consistent. Attach the word "green" to any government program and they have no problem raping the working class.
The solar panels reduce the amount of airborne pollution and green house gases. That benefits everyone.

 
Old 06-02-2015, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,876 posts, read 26,546,256 times
Reputation: 25779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
It's the same with heavily subsidized solar panels. Plumbers and auto mechanics are helping doctors and lawyers save money with solar panels.

But the Dems are consistent. Attach the word "green" to any government program and they have no problem raping the working class.
Lets be honest, the "working class" is the last thing Dems care about.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 07:18 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,267,512 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Again, your complaint is with Congress. They are funding these efforts.

No it isn't. Congress is less likely to do it if people demand it stopped.

Any interest in doing that or are you going to continue to support taxpayers funding millionaires to become billionaires?
 
Old 06-02-2015, 07:20 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,267,512 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
The solar panels reduce the amount of airborne pollution and green house gases. That benefits everyone.
A benefit very few can provide as most can't afford it despite being forced to finance it.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,764,957 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
The solar panels reduce the amount of airborne pollution and green house gases. That benefits everyone.
Then why don't we give everybody FREE solar panels? That would really benefit everyone.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 08:49 AM
 
46,978 posts, read 26,041,916 times
Reputation: 29470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Why exactly is Boeing and Lockheed Martin an "unholy alliance"?
The ULA is a monopoly entirely designed for the purpose of not having to compete for the public dollar.

You're unaware of the history of the ULA? It used to be we had competition on the launch market - Boeing and Lockheed would operate their respective platforms and bid on DoD contracts. Of course they spied on each other like nobody's business, were in court permanently and generally behaved like 5-year-olds in front of a bowl of candy. Then they got the bright idea of merging their operations into the ULA. Now the government could buy launch capacity in exactly one shop, and guess who got to set the price? Oh, and if mean ol' government wouldn't let them form their monopoly, one of them would probably just stop building rockets.

The DoD and the FTC hated the idea, said up front that it would be costlier for the taxpayer, but couldn't tolerate a situation with only one launch platform - technical issues could ground everything. So they had to accept ULA being formed, and of course the taxpayer got stuck with a humongous bill.

Rocket Monopoly Approved

Quote:
And what exactly is the difference between them and SpaceX? Other than a few decades of experience and proven accomplishments anyway. SpaceX does some amazing work. But they are every bit as much a "business" as Boeing and Lockheed.
Having SpaceX enter the scene has already led to ULA lowering their costs and restructuring their workforce. ULA had grown fat and lazy and complacent. As for the difference between SpaceX and Lockheed Martin, one difference is that Space X designs and builds their rocket engines, Lockheed imports their heavy engine (RD-180) from - Russia. We paid them one billion for them to study how to make copies. And they're still not doing it, because engineering is harder than lobbying.

Another difference is that SpaceX doesn't do the traditional cost-plus crap. COTS/CRS is fixed price, and if you can't deliver, you don't get paid.

Quote:
I find Scaled Composites much more interesting actually.
Interesting, but they're not in this league at all. Suborbital spaceplanes are nifty and all - I saw the maiden flight - but it's magnitudes easier.

Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 06-02-2015 at 10:19 AM..
 
Old 06-02-2015, 09:54 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 8,002,180 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
No it isn't. Congress is less likely to do it if people demand it stopped.

Any interest in doing that or are you going to continue to support taxpayers funding millionaires to become billionaires?
Actually people are demanding that Congress fund these efforts. You're "barking up the wrong tree." You're allowed to bid on the procurements too. It's not restricted to the rich.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 09:58 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 8,002,180 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Then why don't we give everybody FREE solar panels? That would really benefit everyone.
Good idea!
 
Old 06-02-2015, 10:03 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,267,512 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Actually people are demanding that Congress fund these efforts. You're "barking up the wrong tree." You're allowed to bid on the procurements too. It's not restricted to the rich.
I doubt you'll find support for taxpayer money going to million/billionaires.
 
Old 06-02-2015, 10:12 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 8,002,180 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I doubt you'll find support for taxpayer money going to million/billionaires.
Congress voted in most of these programs in 2005 when Bush was in office. Bush liked the law and endorsed it. You seem to want to restrict competitive awards by government agencies to failing businesses. That doesn't make much sense.
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