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So it is quite premature to say these people discriminate against them because they are gay.
These two girls shopped there ALL.THE.TIME. The business owner KNEW they were gay.
By the way, I've never said the business owner is 100% innocent, just want to make sure you understand my point.
They are not anti gay, they don't agree with gay marriage because it is against their religious belief. You don't agree with them, but somehow, there is a way to coexist without destroying other people's business.
The baker said himself that he would not make the cake because they were two women getting married.
That is discrimination based on sexual orientation of the people getting married. The state laws says that they can not do that.
I can see his point of view, but I also think that if they couldn't follow the law regarding wedding cakes, they could have chosen to not offer wedding cakes.
I don't make anything up, the shop owner doesn't sign my pay check.
And yet the owner had to ask who the cake was for when one went in for the tasting. Generally the one going in for the tasting is the one purchasing the cake for their wedding. You don't send someone else to do the tasting, pick the flavors and design of your wedding cake.
If he knew them he would have known that they were lesbians as soon as one of them came in for the tasting appointment.
Gee, the last time I checked the Bible there was nothing that would prohibit a Christian from participation in the wedding of a black couple.
There's also nothing in the Bible that would prohibit a Christian from participation in the wedding of a lesbian couple.
Hey they could even use Ruth's vows to Naomi:
Ruth 8
And Ruth said: "whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me.
For anyone feeling sorry for these law-breaking bakers:
On top of the over $100,000k the "Sweet" bakers had already made from the Gofundme crowdfunding account they started, they now have more than another $100,000k from this one:
Supachai You haven't even countered my point that Civil Rights laws are applied unequally. I'm well aware of what the anti-discrimination laws state. They violate the Equal Protection clause of the Constitution.
Why is the law applied to only one party in a business transaction? You think that's fair?"
Yes, that is fair. The business is the one open to the public.
You and others keep asserting that because the business is open to the public, it's fair to have unequal laws applied to the business owners. Care to state why that is fair?
If the business had a doorbell and a sign that said, "Please ring the bell for service," would the business then be free to discriminate for any reason that they chose? Why does being open to the public limit the individual rights of a business owner?
Are you daft ?
Forcing a business owner to make a product that honors something
which is expressly against their religion is a violation of the 1st Amendment.
Couple of points OP: it's not gays--it's the gay activists. They are insidious. They have the same take-all mentality as any other extremist group. Look at what they did in Massachusetts. There are extremists in the wrong on both sides, and I point directly to the Westboro Baptist Church (why does the government not close this stupid church down).
Agree with other comments that, as a business owner, you do not get to discriminate--period. If you are going to own a business, you have to serve the public or close down. The bakery could have subbed out the work and not taken any money, putting the responsibility on themselves to follow the law, not refuse the customers. They didn't think it through and/or aren't dealing in reality. Christian business owners that cater to weddings/marriages are now going to have to decide what to do--follow the Bible or close down. Hopefully the gay activists will do equity since they seek equity and not celebrate that if they behave as they believe, but they are not that kind of people.
Having said that, the examples given here hypocrisy are ridiculous since no one walks into a bakery and gives their life history such as being divorced and remarrying, that they are Jewish, etc. A wedding cake for a same-sex wedding has a way of standing out, don't you think? That information is going to need to come out right up front, don't you think? And you have no idea what the subject bakery has refused or not refused to do in the past or what part of the Bible they believe or do not believe. There is no one commenter on this list who has not at some point in their lives been a hypocrit in some way, shape or form whether on purpose or unintentionally. Gays who are Christian face a similar dilemma--"cherry-picking" as I have seen it posted here--because clearly the Bible states that God loves everyone (emphasis on everyone) but does not want His children engaging in homosexuality. How are gay Christians reconciling that. I don't care personally about that, but the commenters who are so twisted around the axle about hypocrisy need to think about it.
I've seen comments on social media that people will never bake a cake, cater an event, provide a service for a Christian. How are they going to find out? You can't ask, and unless they are asked to bake a cake that states "Jesus Is Lord," or the customer is wearing a cross on a necklace or something, they are not going to know whether or not to throw the customer out of their shop. I'm being sarcastic because the whole idea of hypocrisy is ridiculous.
Despite their misguided intentions as business owners, tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people are supporting this family, are supporting their fight because the order is cruel and unusual punishment fine-wise, but it also violates Constitutional rights. That has to be tested in the courts, and hopefully the family will choose to do that, although I understand if they did not. This family is being made an example of by an activist, but they are going to be just fine, even if they lose. They would likely have had to close down anyway or come up with an alternative with the SCt's recent ruling if they really behave as they believe. They'll be fine unless the activists finally succeed in getting them charged with a hate crime.
The baker said himself that he would not make the cake because they were two women getting married.
That is discrimination based on sexual orientation of the people getting married. The state laws says that they can not do that.
I can see his point of view, but I also think that if they couldn't follow the law regarding wedding cakes, they could have chosen to not offer wedding cakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
And yet the owner had to ask who the cake was for when one went in for the tasting. Generally the one going in for the tasting is the one purchasing the cake for their wedding. You don't send someone else to do the tasting, pick the flavors and design of your wedding cake.
If he knew them he would have known that they were lesbians as soon as one of them came in for the tasting appointment.
Honestly, TO ME, this case is interesting because it involves with retail business. I am not against gay marriage, you know it. The whole case is pretty confusing to say the least.
Maybe a compromise can be made somehow. For example, the seller can have a sign saying "No gay wedding cake topper due to religious belief" something like that or maybe they can stop selling wedding cake.
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....Bigots putting money where their mouth is.....This crowd funding thing can be quite the scam.