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Old 07-14-2015, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,703,030 times
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Iran invented two things relevant to this discussion: Chess and the modern day suicide bomber.

They are playing chess with the Obama administration (which is still trying to figure out checkers).

Suicide bombers, by definition, do not worry about retaliation. Nuclear deterrence is based on the principle of retaliation.

Put those concepts together in your head and you can see why not only the Middle East, but the entire world, is concerned about Iran's current government becoming a nuclear power.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,608 posts, read 16,586,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
Iran invented two things relevant to this discussion: Chess and the modern day suicide bomber.

They are playing chess with the Obama administration (which is still trying to figure out checkers).

Suicide bombers, by definition, do not worry about retaliation. Nuclear deterrence is based on the principle of retaliation.

Put those concepts together in your head and you can see why not only the Middle East, but the entire world, is concerned about Iran's current government becoming a nuclear power.
Iran isnt a suicide bomber, it is a nation of millions with a government that does indeed care about retaliation, if they didnt, they would have already attacked Israel or Saudi Arabia.

Further more, there are 24 countries with nuclear power plants,but no nuclear weapons(that number includes Iran), not a single one. None of them have decided to build weapons since they were allowed to have nuclear power plants(India didnt ask permission and werent a signatory to the NPT).
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:44 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,248,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The U.S. wasn't "stupid" to use them, and Japan far from being resentful, is now one of our strongest allies. The use of the bomb saved hundreds of thousands of both Japanese and Allied lives.
They aren't one of our strongest allies. Japan is a leech. The benefits of our relationship have ALL been one sided. They've given us nothing in exchange for spending our billions to defend them.

What has Japan ever done for the United States?
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:37 AM
 
Location: My little patch of Earth
6,193 posts, read 5,373,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Why should I care?

The only country on EARTH who has used nuclear weapons is... the United States of America.

What makes us the moral authority?
If you check an unrevised history book.....the US did not go lightly into that conflict. Germany and Japan colluded with each other toward the same weapon goal - and Japan reportedly had tested theirs shortly before we used Fat Man and Little Boy on them.

They are terrible weapons to be sure.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:55 AM
 
719 posts, read 358,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
Even if Iran has nukes, does anyone really think they'll use them? The only country on Earth that's ever stooped to that level was the US and that was before we realized what we had just introduced to the world and what it could really mean. Iran might be stupid enough to basically be a theocracy, but even that's not nearly stupid enough to actually instigate nuclear war.
When you rely on the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) concept, you're assigning the rationality of the other governments to the radical Iranian leadership. You're saying that there is nothing to fear because the mullahs will not use their nukes due to the fear of mutual destruction. Well, read the relevant paragraph in the linked article:
"Fundamentally, a nuclear Iran represents a unique threat. The fear of mutually assured destruction has long restrained other nuclear powers. There is a real risk that the Iranian leadership is not rational, that driven by its mad hatreds, it will act in ways that are unreasonable, even self-destructive. Anti-Americanism is a cornerstone of the ideology of this Islamic state. The virulence of Iran's hostility is impervious to reason. "Death to America!" has provoked the Iranian street for over a quarter of a century and is the venom upon which an entire generation of Iranians has been raised. The dominant Ayatollah Ali Khamenei reiterates that Iran's differences with America are more fundamental than political differences. Whatever may happen to the leadership over time, the inescapable fact is that the United States just cannot take the risk of nuclear missiles in the hands of a clerical regime that preaches genocide. It is pathetic that appeasement continues to beguile."
The World Cannot Live With the Threat of a Nuclear Iran - US News and World Report
And again, unlike the current nuclear powers, their worldview is dominated by an apocalyptic religious vision:
Extra - WSJ.com

There is a significant risk that the MAD doctrine which applied in the cold war will not deter a group which sees itself obligated to fullfill the radical tenets of its religion.

History will prove Obama and Kerry to be the Neville Chamberlains of the 21st century.
This deal will not stop the radical Islamists in Iran in their quest for nuclear weaponization.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,988 posts, read 2,227,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
What has Japan ever done for the United States?
They sell us their cars.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:19 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,738,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Iran poses no threat to this country.
oh please-
If you do not think The Iranian Navy is plotting to invade New York Harbor you are living under a rock!

Oh wait- in fact Iranians have already invaded Beverly Hills- Just watch that reality show.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,703,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Iran isnt a suicide bomber, it is a nation of millions with a government that does indeed care about retaliation, if they didnt, they would have already attacked Israel or Saudi Arabia.
Actually, if you go back and look at the government Khomeini set up in 1979, a 'suicide bomber' nation is exactly what he created. Assured destruction (retaliation) will, according to the guidance of the jurisprudent (read: Ayatollah Khomeini), will lead to Paradise. Iranians should feel elated that they have the opportunity to sacrifice themselves for a place in Paradise. This seemingly insane notion is repeated early and often in Khomeini's statements and were made central planks in his government. Subsequent "Supreme Leaders" have echoed the sentiment. (See also: the Basij.)

Iran cannot launch on Israel nor Saudi Arabia because they are not militarily strong enough yet and, with respect to Israel, they are not in a geostrategic position to do so. That is why Israel is so petrified of a nuclear armed Iran - it removes the geostrategic positioning factor. (They can shoot over the countries in between.) (Memo to Israel: You probably should not have supported Iran in its 1980 - 88 war with Iraq. Just sayin'...)

This very subject is the topic of the book I'm currently working on. I cannot advertise it here, but suffice it to say it is a history of modern suicide bombings. Chapter 2 starts with the words, "Iran started it all."
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:16 AM
 
Location: New York Area
35,137 posts, read 17,087,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
They amount of treaties made and broken b4 WWII could fill the mississippi
Quite true.

The serious problem here is that Iran gets the treaty benefits up front and then we have to rely on their dubious integrity to honor the treaty down the road. The problem with snap-back of sanctions as a penalty is that when businesses are making money it will be politically impossible to reimpose them. Certainly in Europe and quite possibly here.

Also, Iran really believes in its Islamist causes. The parties at the negotiating table believe in peace as a general proposition but don't care very much about the victims of Iran's threats or ability to use the bomb. Israel was pointedly excluded from the talks.

My own instinct is that Israel will not just sit there and watch this play out. They may not bomb the reactors. But watch for members of the Supreme Cultural Revolution Council (SCRC, also known as the Supreme Council of Cultural Revolution) (link) and possibly Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, Leader of the Islamic Revolution(link) to serve terms for a length determined by the IDF.
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Florida
33,582 posts, read 18,199,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Why should I care?

The only country on EARTH who has used nuclear weapons is... the United States of America.

What makes us the moral authority?
After we were attacked at Pearl Harbor minding our own business. They woke up the sleeping giant.
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