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Thanks & respect for posting these, I appreciate. I had seen Ms. Elliot's earlier experiments done with third graders in the 1960s or so but hadn't seen the more recent research with the adults from UK & US college students - very powerful to watch. I thought it was interesting Ms. Elliot compared the stages experienced by the research subjects to the Kübler-Ross model where 5 stages are described in the experience of grief or death of a loved one:
The title of this thread is Race: Depressing, huh? If the USA is going through these stages re: race, where would you say we are? Is it possible or meaningful to frame it this way?
The subject of race isn't depressing at all. You only find that the discussion doesn't lead to the place where you want it to be, and that is what you find depressing.
The subject of race isn't depressing at all. You only find that the discussion doesn't lead to the place where you want it to be, and that is what you find depressing.
ITA with this!
And on that, to the OP, I am a black woman. I have no issues with being black. I know that stereotypes are based upon the idea of white supremacy and black inferiority.
I also know that "race" was not defined in the 19th century, but earlier in this country in the late 17th and early 18th century when "Black Codes" were enacted in practically all of the early American colonies and territories.
On Ta-Nahesi Coates, I agree with a lot of what he says.
I don't think that all whites are racist, but I believe that our society subscribes to the idea of black inferiority. I believe that nothing blacks do will cause that stigma to decrease in the eyes of mainstream society. I believe that the majority of black people also adhere to the idea of black inferiority as do other people of color in this country.
I don't believe that the adherance to white supremacy ideology and the concept of black inferiority will ever go away in my lifetime, but I do feel that it will in this country one day because I feel Americans are more progressive on race than other countries due to having had such a racial history in relation to slavery and a very popular Civil Rights Movement based primarily on decreasing racial oppression in this country.
On whites in America, I feel that most whites view themselves and their groups as individuals. They do not see all white people as a "white community." They are individuals in different regions, cities, etc.
Most of them view blacks and other ethnic "colored" groups as having a particular "culture" and "community" different from their own even though in most cases, and especially with black Americans (I don't label myself or other blacks as African American because I am an American and do not have a recent history or connection to Africa. Also, Africa is made up of many ethnic and tribal groups and I don't belong to any of them) that is not true at all. Black Americans are Americans first and foremost as other than the indigenous population and those descended from European colonist in the 1500s and 1600s, we have been here the longest and have contributed the most to this country and are much more American and alike in regards to culture than most whites believe.
Race IMO makes white people uncomfortable. Since you, OP are a liberal, I also feel that many liberals have some sort of guilt associated with being white when that is not necessary IMO. What is necessary is for you all to accept the fact that you do view black people as "others" in this country, even though historically, as stated above we are much more American in nature being our ancestors were not recent immigrants like most whites in this country.
Because it makes them uncomfortable, many whites get defensive when black people especially speak of discrimination as if they are being accused of committing an offense.
IMO, whites need to educate themselves on many of the topics that Ta-Nahesi Coates, James Baldwin, WEB DuBois, Angela Davis, Cornell West, and many many others have written about in regards to long ago racial issues as well as recent ones.
The Case For Reparations is an excellent read and many of the white friends/associates I know did not know about the extreme housing discrimination experienced by black people, which was not lessened until the 1980s. They do not know that "the north" was also segregated. They do not know the depths to which blacks were kept from rising economically. They do not know how low black people were prior to the 1960s where 70% of blacks lived in poverty compared to 70% not living in poverty today. The overly defensive whites want to make comparisons between blacks and whites or blacks and recent immigrant groups as if their experiences are similar to those of black Americans in any way.
So for me, as stated above, I don't believe the concept of black inferiority will go away any time soon. But unlike Coates, I am hopeful that it will in the future, hopefully by the time my great grand children are born. But unless your children and your grandchildren are knowledgeable about the history of our country and you are actively invested in not continuing to let negative stereotypes (most of which ARE NOT based upon truths) about black Americans be realized in your own children, then the concept of white supremacy and black inferiority will continue for hundreds of more years.
Whites stereotype blacks, blacks stereotype whites, whites and blacks stereotype Asians...the reason for stereotypes is that they are generally true in one group compared with another group. To me it's not depressing, it is what it is. Just one of my gropes with the Politically Correct Nazi Code of Conduct....you can't be honest. Political Correctness is just a web of lies.
Stereotypes of blacks are not based on truth.
They were created hundreds of years ago and include those shown below:
Lazy
Ignorant
Criminally Minded
Violent
Sexual Deviants/Abnormal or excessive sexual behavior
All of the popular stereotypes of blacks began during the slavery era. They were created by whites who it is funny to me, were actually much more lazy since they forced blacks to work for them with threat of violence. They were violent and criminally minded and many were sexual deviants who raped black women during that era.
I do a lot of historical review of records of the south and plantation information/records left by owners in particular. Also diaries of people who visited specific plantations and it is interesting that the ones listed above are still pervasive in society today when during that era, black people were practically all victims of whites.
IMO those stereotypes are a reflection of the society which placed them upon enslaved persons. But the whites, due to being in a superior position, taught their children these same things about black people. And those lessons are still being taught today.
Just like people today like to prove these stereotypes based upon statistics, especially in relation to crime, those in the past did the same thing, which is why I find it interesting that many conservative posters here claim that blacks were "better off" prior to the 1960s and welfare. Prior to the 1960s blacks were not better off statistically and whites commonly felt that they were all of the above because their parents and grandparents told them so.
In regards to crime especially, what the OP stated is correct, blacks don't commit more crime. But they are arrested and convicted more. That doesn't mean that whites aren't committing lots and lots of crime themselves or other ethnic groups. Our society sees blacks as inferior to whites and others and places the stereotype of criminal upon them, so the criminal justice system heavily polices blacks and as a result their crimes are much more likely to be brought before a judge versus a white criminal in a less policed area.
The history of black stereotypes is an interesting one, but if you really look into it, you will see that they are not true and that the dominant whites of society created them to justify enslaving blacks in this country. Their reasons being that blacks needed whites to take care of them and teach them to be "civilized." So they made blacks inferior to them and passed along this idea to us today.
All of this race talk is on the news and from the Obama administration. Nobody where I live talks about race tensions and people from all races get along just fine. These are dirty tactics from politicians to try and divide the people any way they can and race baiting is most often used. They also divide the people on religion, gay rights, abortion, immigration ... it goes on and on. These are tactics right out of the Saul Alinsky playbook to force social engineering change. It's all on the news but rarely actually seen in public.
Oh brother blame race relations on Obama! Which half of Obama's race would you like to blame since he is half white?
And on that, to the OP, I am a black woman. I have no issues with being black. I know that stereotypes are based upon the idea of white supremacy and black inferiority.
I also know that "race" was not defined in the 19th century, but earlier in this country in the late 17th and early 18th century when "Black Codes" were enacted in practically all of the early American colonies and territories.
On Ta-Nahesi Coates, I agree with a lot of what he says.
I don't think that all whites are racist, but I believe that our society subscribes to the idea of black inferiority. I believe that nothing blacks do will cause that stigma to decrease in the eyes of mainstream society. I believe that the majority of black people also adhere to the idea of black inferiority as do other people of color in this country.
I don't believe that the adherance to white supremacy ideology and the concept of black inferiority will ever go away in my lifetime, but I do feel that it will in this country one day because I feel Americans are more progressive on race than other countries due to having had such a racial history in relation to slavery and a very popular Civil Rights Movement based primarily on decreasing racial oppression in this country.
On whites in America, I feel that most whites view themselves and their groups as individuals. They do not see all white people as a "white community." They are individuals in different regions, cities, etc.
Most of them view blacks and other ethnic "colored" groups as having a particular "culture" and "community" different from their own even though in most cases, and especially with black Americans (I don't label myself or other blacks as African American because I am an American and do not have a recent history or connection to Africa. Also, Africa is made up of many ethnic and tribal groups and I don't belong to any of them) that is not true at all. Black Americans are Americans first and foremost as other than the indigenous population and those descended from European colonist in the 1500s and 1600s, we have been here the longest and have contributed the most to this country and are much more American and alike in regards to culture than most whites believe.
Race IMO makes white people uncomfortable.Since you, OP are a liberal, I also feel that many liberals have some sort of guilt associated with being white when that is not necessary IMO. What is necessary is for you all to accept the fact that you do view black people as "others" in this country, even though historically, as stated above we are much more American in nature being our ancestors were not recent immigrants like most whites in this country.
Because it makes them uncomfortable, many whites get defensive when black people especially speak of discrimination as if they are being accused of committing an offense.
IMO, whites need to educate themselves on many of the topics that Ta-Nahesi Coates, James Baldwin, WEB DuBois, Angela Davis, Cornell West, and many many others have written about in regards to long ago racial issues as well as recent ones.
The Case For Reparations is an excellent read and many of the white friends/associates I know did not know about the extreme housing discrimination experienced by black people, which was not lessened until the 1980s. They do not know that "the north" was also segregated. They do not know the depths to which blacks were kept from rising economically. They do not know how low black people were prior to the 1960s where 70% of blacks lived in poverty compared to 70% not living in poverty today. The overly defensive whites want to make comparisons between blacks and whites or blacks and recent immigrant groups as if their experiences are similar to those of black Americans in any way.
So for me, as stated above, I don't believe the concept of black inferiority will go away any time soon. But unlike Coates, I am hopeful that it will in the future, hopefully by the time my great grand children are born. But unless your children and your grandchildren are knowledgeable about the history of our country and you are actively invested in not continuing to let negative stereotypes (most of which ARE NOT based upon truths) about black Americans be realized in your own children, then the concept of white supremacy and black inferiority will continue for hundreds of more years.
Bolded: Very true. I am white. That is exactly how it is. I do not see whites as a collective group, but you are right that I have seen blacks as a "group", and so do many, many, many white people, no matter how much they deny it. The proof of that is right here on CD. "When are the blacks going to....." "Why do black people....." I never see whites say, "When are whites going to..." "Why do white people..." except liberals who pretend that all white people are old, rich, non caring Conservatives, (even though many of those who say that idiotic stuff are white themselves). That's it.
As is said on here a lot: Truth hurts, doesn't it? Too bad.
Elliott's blue-eye/brown-eye exercise showed that if you want to manipulate children into being negative and hostile toward others for some arbitrary reason, you can. Tell me, what value do you see in this?
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