Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't disagree with anything you said here except that you claim background checks won't work & I agree they don't always work but they do help.
Yes, this is always the big black hole these discussions go down. You make the suggestion to strengthen background checks and plug loopholes, and all they do is provide anecdotal "evidence" that it wouldn't have prevented the latest shooting, so we're supposed to just forget it then. What's systematically ignored is that nothing is going to prevent every instance of gun violence. But you've got to make an effort to prevent some of them. Unfortunately, anything and everything is always taken off the table by the paranoid, screaming zealots. What boggles my mind is that such a small minority continues to hold its hands around the throats of all Americans.
Thank you for getting my point. People are getting tired and frustrated in their attempts to even discuss, much less pass, the most minor regulations on firearms in this country. And on the flipside, the NRA's response is to further unravel regulations that were already in place. Push people to the point where they feel like they're negotiating with terrorists, and that's the reaction they will get: You don't negotiate with terrorists. You just say enough is enough.
If there is ever a law put on the books to ban guns entirely, it will be because the gun lobby refuses to consider even the most minor compromises to appease the growing number of people who are fed up with inaction on gun violence. And if/when that happens, I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry for them.
The reason you're being tired and frustrated is not because of the evil NRA and gun lobby. It's because of the regular voters who don't share your beliefs. The hard fact is, in the past decade the levels of legal gun ownership have been steadily growing just as the murder rate had been steadily falling. This flies in the face of your belief system, and the sane people who don't have a strong ideology driven belief but rather make up their mind based on logically processing the available data, support the other side. That's why you're getting frustrated. The gun sales are at all time high, the number of CPL applicants in states that allow them is at all time high, the murder rate is half of what it was in the 80s, your ideology contradicts the real world.
That makes it an illegal sale. Your claim that it is a legal sale is outright false. The officer tho is not the culpable party.
It takes two to tango. Or was the crazy person the only party to the deal responsible for enforcing its legality? Some law! Now why would we want to improve on that?
Saying that gun control laws shouldn't be enacted because we have enough already is roughly analogous to saying that "we don't need anymore traffic lights on America's streets, we have enough of them already." Law is a constantly revising thing, aiming to improve on an imperfect system; unless you prefer chaos, that is.
Peace exists among the super powers because they have the same capacity for war.
They treat one another with more respect no matter how deadly they are.
The same is true for people in general .
If every one has an equal capacity to defend them self, there is more respect, and greater hesitancy to be abusive.
There are too many ways to abuse one another including the gun ,but denying the people the right to defend ones self is kin to siding with the criminal , Is that what you are proposing ?
Are you siding with an abusive government, anxious to take your rights away ?
People should not have to be running from their home an let the abuse continue .
But that is what the liberals instruct.
Giving more right to the criminal than the law abiding people.
...gun sales are at all time high, the number of CPL applicants in states that allow them is at all time high, the murder rate is half of what it was in the 80s...
NO ONE who studies this issue believes that crime rates, including murder rates, have gone down due to increased gun sales. But gun sellers don't bother to correct the false correlation. Follow the money.
NO ONE who studies this issue believes that crime rates, including murder rates, have gone down due to increased gun sales. But gun sellers don't bother to correct the false correlation. Follow the money.
I don't disagree with anything you said here except that you claim background checks won't work & I agree they don't always work but they do help. There was a gun dealer in Reno who was convicted of selling illegal weapons (i.e. machine guns) People had been talking about him for awhile, claiming that if a felon wanted to buy a gun he was the 'go to guy' at the Reno Gun show, that he would usually have an unlicensed friend conduct the sale in order to avoid the background check requirement, but I guess in this case he got so greedy that he sold directly to these ATF agents. I posted an article earlier in this thread about a Reno cop selling a gun at Starbucks to a guy who was prohibited because of a mental health commitment. If Nevada required a background check for all transactions it just 'might' have stopped some of these kinds of transactions & I'm sure the Cop would not have jeopardized her job if it had been illegal for her to sell the gun without a background check.
I agree with you, there should be universal background checks with any transfer of a firearm. It might do some good.
I think we can both agree that funding for honest studies (CDC, etc.) focusing on mental health is the most likely solution.
The first step has to be respectful discussion between all involved. ( Not saying you are disrespectful )
NO ONE who studies this issue believes that crime rates, including murder rates, have gone down due to increased gun sales. But gun sellers don't bother to correct the false correlation. Follow the money.
According to the gun ban advocates, the availability of legal guns leads to more murders. Clearly that has not been the case.
While I do agree that the drop in murder rates has been a complex process, there's a very clear picture here - more legal guns, less murders. Not more murders.
NO ONE who studies this issue believes that crime rates, including murder rates, have gone down due to increased gun sales. But gun sellers don't bother to correct the false correlation. Follow the money.
...and yet your claim that more guns equals more shootings is blown away by that same statistic regardless of correlation!
...and yet your claim that more guns equals more shootings is blown away by that same statistic regardless of correlation!
Here you go again, logical thinking backed with real world data.... How dare you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
