Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
NO ONE who studies this issue believes that crime rates, including murder rates, have gone down due to increased gun sales. But gun sellers don't bother to correct the false correlation. Follow the money.
LMAO!! So gun sellers are guilty of not going out of their way to correct a false correlation?
You started off exactly correct. Nobody says that increased gun sales caused crime stats to go down. But since crime stats went down at the same time that gun ownership went up, empty-headed leftist arguments about MORE GUNS = MORE CRIME are clearly the "false correlation."
Putin is making his move because Obama has demonstrated that there is nothing he will do to oppose him. I.e., the US no longer has equal capacity for war.
The point is that he was able to buy the gun because Nevada does not require a background check for non dealer gun transactions, I'm not quite sure why you didn't see that was my point in posting it, but I hope I have clarified that now.
There should be no restrictions on private sales of anything. Does absolutely nothing to prevent the sale anyway, and there is absolutely no way to enforce a law like that if there was one.
Can you tell us how you would enforce that Law, if you didn't know about the sale in the first place? Are you really naïve enough to believe that any individual is going to "Not" sell his gun, if he wants to, because you made a Law that says he can't ?
Besides, no one can tell me how Gun Registration saves lives anyway. I could go buy a gun, and shoot a dozen people with that registered gun, then take it home and put it away. End of Story. Where did "Registration" help?
There should be no restrictions on private sales of anything. Does absolutely nothing to prevent the sale anyway, and there is absolutely no way to enforce a law like that if there was one.
Bought a car from a private seller in the last few decades? Works well enough for motor vehicles.
According to the gun ban advocates, the availability of legal guns leads to more murders. Clearly that has not been the case.
While I do agree that the drop in murder rates has been a complex process, there's a very clear picture here - more legal guns, less murders. Not more murders.
It's not about "more guns=more murders," that's a false issue. The issue is: there are a more than enough guns about and we have one of the highest number of deaths and injury by gun in the civilized world.
We already have one gun for every man woman and child in the country, and yet we have a high rate of death and mayhem. What would you advocate, more guns? Not too many people I know can operate more than one gun at a time. And don't forget, over half of all gun deaths aren't murder; are those "OK" deaths? What about all the innocent and sometimes even not innocent bystanders wounded by guns and clogging up our emergency rooms and filling up the disability roles; do those bullets not count?
I wouldn't even try specifically to reduce the number of guns out there. But increased responsibility for what your guns do would be a good start. If someone is injured by your car, no one says you can't own it, in fact you bloody well will "OWN" it; you're responsible for what your car does. A ladder manufacturer has more responsibility for what his products do than does a gun manufacturer. Did you ever hear a ladder manufacturer say "those are ILLEGAL ladders, why you asking me about THEM?"
You want to own guns? Fine. But it's past time to start "owning" them and take full responsibility for them from cradle to grave. Nothing unconstitutional about that, either. That's what has gun manufacturers paying the NRA to get you all in a tizzy about: they're afraid we might have to bear the true cost of owning guns. That would cut into their sales and profits, even as it cut down on gun mayhem and incautious use.
Are you really naïve enough to believe that any individual is going to "Not" sell his gun, if he wants to, because you made a Law that says he can't?
I think sales at sanctioned gun shows could be prevented. Private sales? Essentially a grey market? It would be difficult. Does eBay allow gun listings? Craig's List? Even if they don't, there are numerous ways to leverage the internet to foster a grey market in gun sales (no background check, waiting period, registration). I guess if you closed the "gun show loophole" then not much would change with these other private sales, we'd just refer to it as a black market instead of as a grey market.
Only if you plan to drive it on public roads. I know plenty of people who've bought sportbikes (and a few who've bought cars) and then made them track-only vehicles. No need to register, no need to pay tax, no need to get it inspected, no need to buy insurance.
You register a vehicle bought privately because you'll be using it in public and therefore you need insurance on it, need a sticker so you don't get stopped and ticketed, etc.
Yes you are dodging. Go back to post #173 where you asked a specific question and I gave you a concrete answer backed up with data. You completely ignored it and went back to crying "OMG the guns kill".
I also showed you the FBI stats for the number of times a legally owned gun was used by a private citizen to kill an attacker - the justifiable homicides. That's on the average 230 a year, 10 times more than the average number of victims of mass shootings. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, not accounting for all the encounters when the gun scared the criminal away without killing him. That's hundreds if not thousands of lives saved each year, again something you completely chose to ignore.
I also showed you that many of the states with highest gun ownership rate have low murder rate, better than many Western European countries. Vermont, Idaho, Iowa, Utah, Wyoming. You again chose to ignore this.
I showed you that there's a very strong, undeniable correlation between murder rate and demographic, that has nothing to do with legal gun ownership. The top murder rate area, DC, has complete gun control. You again chose to ignore this.
You have a clear agenda and carefully avoid an honest, straightforward, data based discussion. This is very obvious.
Actually what is happening here is that I refuse to go off topic and allow you to shift the topic to race. As far as I know you are not the C-D shot caller so you might as well give up on trying to bait me into that discussion. I posted stats that clearly show that your data about low murder rate high gun ownership are cherry picked, I don't think I need to post it again- it's still there go back and look at it.
there are a more than enough guns about and we have one of the highest number of deaths and injury by gun in the civilized world.
So, .00004% percent of guns are used to murder and THAT is reason to ban guns?
We don't have a gun problem, we have a violence problem! We know who is doing the crimes and we know where they are...but you don't want to do anything about the real cause of crime, do you?
Until you rid society of the people committing the crimes you will have crime by whatever means. YOU know it and I know it! You and I also know your position has nothing at all to do with stopping crime or saving lives...
Actually what is happening here is that I refuse to go off topic and allow you to shift the topic to race. As far as I know you are not the C-D shot caller so you might as well give up on trying to bait me into that discussion. I posted stats that clearly show that your data about low murder rate high gun ownership are cherry picked, I don't think I need to post it again- it's still there go back and look at it.
Were you the one that posted the two graphs that showed spikes in gun deaths in America vs other "developed" countries? If so, I think it's a good start for a discussion, but I didn't see you post up a graph showing the overall murder rates in the same countries, regardless of object used.
That missing graph answers a very important question:
Are people in other countries just as violent, just choosing other methods to kill? Or do guns make it "too easy", so all gun-less countries are safer?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
