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Old 10-16-2015, 10:44 AM
 
14,292 posts, read 9,678,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Why do reps prefer retrograde antiquated pathways?

Civilized societies prefer a social democracy where certain things are part of the citizenship such as Health Care, free time for leisure activities, education, highways, parks, adequate housing, high salaries, and improved nutrition.

The Scandinavians are getting there and we are still in barbaric times.
We have fifty states, with their own government, each state can provide all of that, if the people wish. But liberal leftists cannot grasp that notion, they think the all powerful federal government must take over and do all those things you cite, and to hell with federalism and republicanism, and all hail socialism.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:46 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
So why aren't Americans embracing higher taxes for that Utopia ?
None of them will answer that. None of them will agree to tax regressively like Scandinavian and European countries do. None of them are willing to make the middle class and poor bear the greatest tax burden like they do in Scandinavian and European countries. That's why their childish demands for more and more will never be met.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,209,414 times
Reputation: 16747
Enlightened Self Interest
-v-
Predation

Like most Americans, I was indoctrinated into socialist democracy from a young age. My opinions and expectations were carefully formed by repeated propaganda about “patriotism,” “the social compact,” and “owing a duty to the State.” I was made to believe that the law was what “they” said it was, and not to read it myself. I was misled to believe that America’s experiment into “Self Government,” only referred to an indirect democratic form, as if that was something never before tried in history. I was conditioned to participate in the ceremonies of mass subjugation and fealty to the omnipotent State. And I was persuaded to believe that I only had the “rights” that government granted to me, not realizing that they were privileges, not to be confused with the endowed rights of my heritage.

Only later in life, did circumstances compel me to indulge in reading law. I won’t claim it was easy - far from it. The authors of law used every grammatical trick of convoluted construction to hide the truth in plain sight, in the printed word. At times, it felt like blood would squirt from my eyes, or that I would lash out and pound the table, asking “Why!? Why !? Why!?”

After much reading, and meditating on what I read, did it become clear. The promised republican form still existed, on paper, and in the laws of the land. The American people still retained their birthright of sovereignty, freedom and independence - until they surrendered it - by consent.

Law simplified into one sentence:
"All law is the protection of property rights, all else is policy and policy requires consent."
Constitutional Government recognizes and explicitly protects private property ownership.
Constitutional Government recognizes and explicitly protects natural and personal liberty from trespass.

Declaration of Independence soundbite:
=> Job #1 = secure rights (endowed by our Creator)
=> Job #2 = govern those who consent
(Caveat - consent waives job #1)
USCON summed up:
=> People have rights and powers (protected by government)
=> Citizens have privileges and immunities (granted by government)
=> The United States, in Congress assembled, is reorganized into three branches, allegedly to balance power, but requires the State officers to swear an oath to the supremacy of the U.S. constitution.
In other words, the institution of government was to secure rights, via prosecution of deliberate trespass and adjudication of accidental trespass. In plainer terms, help the people fend off predators.
And govern only those who consent.
Anything more is suspect. Anything less is unacceptable.

To unlearn a lifetime of indoctrination and propaganda takes time and effort. One key item - note that in the republican form, the people are sovereign. Any mention of citizen, is a reference to something other than the republican form.

It's a common mistake to assume "republic" = "republican form".
REPUBLIC - A commonwealth; That form of government in which the administration of affairs is open to all the citizens. In another sense, it signifies the state, independent of its form of government.
Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 1302
A republic is not synonymous with a republican form of government.
The People's Republic of China is a republic but not a republican form.
Voting and holding public office is a privilege granted to subject citizens, not sovereign people.

REPUBLICAN FORM
GOVERNMENT (Republican Form of Government)- One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people,... directly...
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 695
DEMOCRATIC FORM
DEMOCRACY - That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy."
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 432
The key distinguishing feature between a republican and democratic form is sovereignty.

In the republican form, the PEOPLE individually are sovereign and directly exercise that power.
In the democratic form, the "whole body of citizens" indirectly exercise it via representation. But in truth, democratic majorities override the individual, so no individual's rights are secure. And citizens are obligated to perform civic duties, so they are subjects - not sovereigns.

In plain English, America’s experiment in “Self government,” was the republican form, where each American was sovereign over his private property, absolutely owned. And that government was his servant, not his master, nor his ruler. As a servant, government was to help secure his property rights by prosecuting those who do deliberate injury and adjudicating disputes over accidental injury. And this servant only had power to rule or govern those who gave consent, knowingly, willingly and intentionally. Those who did consent, stepped down in status, accepted the obligation to perform mandatory civic duties, in exchange for political liberty - voting and holding public office. And even the president, though the highest ranking public servant, is still one step lower than the lowest, vulgar, uncultured sovereign American.

If you're still skeptical about Americans being sovereign - - -
“... at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are SOVEREIGNS WITHOUT SUBJECTS, and have none to govern but themselves.

“... In Europe, the sovereignty is generally ascribed to the Prince; here, it rests with the people; there, the sovereign actually administers the government; here, never in a single instance; our Governors are the agents of the people, and, at most, stand in the same relation to their sovereign in which regents in Europe stand to their sovereigns."
- - - Justice John Jay in Chisholm v. Georgia (2 U.S. 419 (1793))
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...CR_0002_0419_Z

Justice John Jay says government is an agent for the sovereign people, not sovereign over them. They govern themselves. No other country on earth has a republican form, where the people are sovereigns, served - but not ruled - by government.
It will be admitted on all hands that with the exception of the powers granted to the states and the federal government, through the Constitutions, the people of the several states are UNCONDITIONALLY SOVEREIGN within their respective states.
- - - Ohio L. Ins. & T. Co. v. Debolt 16 How. 416, 14 L.Ed. 997

In America, however, the case is widely different. Our government is founded upon compact. Sovereignty was, and is, in the people.
[ Glass vs The Sloop Betsey, 3 Dall 6 (1794)]
Do not believe me - go read law for yourself. (Statutes, not the code)
Ask your public servants to explain themselves. (Politely!)
If you're one of the sovereign people, they're your servants.

But if you consented to be a subject citizen, you're theirs to rule.
So shut up, sit down, and behave !
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
None of them will answer that. None of them will agree to tax regressively like Scandinavian and European countries do. None of them are willing to make the middle class and poor bear the greatest tax burden like they do in Scandinavian and European countries. That's why their childish demands for more and more will never be met.
They listen to the chants of their leaders.
Obama has been saying "Tax the rich" for 8 years now. Nothing has happened.

The poor are not going to finance these politicians or give them jobs when they leave government or support their government pensions because these people don't pay taxes.

It's all lip service to secure votes.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Secure Bunker
5,461 posts, read 3,235,884 times
Reputation: 5269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Why do reps prefer retrograde antiquated pathways?

Civilized societies prefer a social democracy where certain things are part of the citizenship such as Health Care, free time for leisure activities, education, highways, parks, adequate housing, high salaries, and improved nutrition.

The Scandinavians are getting there and we are still in barbaric times.

Nonsense. There is nothing civilized about massive government control over your paycheck, your healthcare and your liberty.

The founders were civilized men. Yet they didn't include all the 'perks' of European Socialism that you advocate in the Constitution. What a bunch of barbarians.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:58 AM
 
311 posts, read 478,067 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
We embrace the glorious socialist paradise. We want a world where everything not mandatory, permitted, or regulated is forbidden. We want everyone to pay their "fair share," unless they're recipients of their "fair share."

No one can absolutely own anything - including themselves. We are all part of the collective whole, equally equal unless specially privileged.

We love Big Brother.

s.
Winston Smith.

[/sarcasm]
Easy there with the sarcasm.. you may get sent to room 101. Luckily, sarcasm will be eliminated with newspeak.

If your life-long dream is to earn 15.00 an hour and have guaranteed access to some terrible universal single-payer medical care system, democratic socialism may be for you!
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
They listen to the chants of their leaders.
Obama has been saying "Tax the rich" for 8 years now. Nothing has happened.
Bernie Sanders is pulling the same crap with his "Robin Hood tax" on stock transactions proposal. His supporters are too stupid to understand that it's a tax on the millions of American workers and retirees who have $24 trillion invested in pensions and retirement accounts.

Quote:
It's all lip service to secure votes.
Indeed. And the stupid fall for it.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Bernie Sanders is pulling the same crap with his "Robin Hood tax" on stock transactions proposal. His supporters are too stupid to understand that it's a tax on the millions of American workers and retirees who have $24 trillion invested in pensions and retirement accounts.

Indeed. And the stupid fall for it.
Bernie said he's going after those rich wall street investors with that "transaction tax".
And no mention of how he plans to differentiate them from the rest of us that have investments that aren't "rich wall street investors".

I guess if you have money to invest in the stock market then you must automatically be one of those "rich wall street investors".
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Bernie said he's going after those rich wall street investors with that "transaction tax".
And no mention of how he plans to differentiate them from the rest of us that have investments that aren't "rich wall street investors".

I guess if you have money to invest in the stock market then you must automatically be one of those "rich wall street investors".
Yep. Millions of American workers and retirees will be hit with Bernie's "Robin Hood tax" via their $24 trillion worth of investments in their pension and reitrement accounts. Why isn't Bernie being honest about that and telling American workers and retirees he plans on taxing them even more? He makes it sound like only the rich will pay, when in reality, it's anyone and everyone who has to realize (sell) assets in their pension or retirement accounts to fund their retirement.

Who honestly believes the investment houses managing all those pension funds and retirement accounts aren't going to pass the cost of that tax along to average hard-working Americans in service fees, etc.? How stupid ARE Sanders' supporters?
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Yep. Millions of American workers and retirees will be hit with Bernie's "Robin Hood tax" via their $24 trillion worth of investments in their pension and reitrement accounts. Why isn't Bernie being honest about that and telling American workers and retirees he plans on taxing them even more? He makes it sound like only the rich will pay, when in reality, it's anyone and everyone who has to realize (sell) assets in their pension or retirement accounts to fund their retirement.

Who honestly believes the investment houses managing all those pension funds and retirement accounts aren't going to pass the cost of that tax along to average hard-working Americans in service fees, etc.? How stupid ARE Sanders' supporters?
Glossy eyed over the thought of "free stuff".
Most are uninformed and can't be bothered to do any research.

No different than Peggy who paid homage to Obama because he was going to fill her gas tank.
6 years later...."He lied about everything". Only 6 years later is too late to finally do your research.
She admitted she was taken by his speeches.
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