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Absolutely, I mean controlling who can get married, and who is forced to have children against their own will, and the war on drugs is all about controlling peoples lives.
Ohhhh wait.
Socialism is not about turning people against each other.
I could certainly argue that Capitalism has fit that more then anything else as of late.
I agree, Socialism does not cause people to turn against each other.
All the negative things that was said would happened if we embraced Socialism has happened under Capitalism.
Are you kidding? There is a toilet paper shortgage in Venezuela. And Norway isn't "socialist". It's a Capitalist country with some socialist values. But it doesn't implement actual socialism. And comparing tiny Norway to the US is like comparing a single apple to a truckload of mixed fruit. Not a good comparison.
Thank you. Many great responses in this thread, I'm impressed.
The left loves to bring up Norway, Sweden, and other countries to form a case for socialism, but they always conveniently leave out important details and the differences those countries have compared to the U.S (economy, population size, and demographics, ect.).
Also, people lauding Venezuela as a socialist paradise gave me a good laugh. I doubt any of them have actually been there before to witness it's "success".
That's hilarious! Venezuela, with its oil wealth, doesn't even have toilet paper.
What's hilarious is when people who know not a single thing about Venezuela's history somehow feel qualified to talk about it. Read up on the exploitation and despair visited upon the people by the ultra-right oligarchy in their nearly four decades of death-squad brutality and repressive control prior to the Bolivarian revolution. The people of Venezuela greatly benefited from having that right-wing yoke lifted from them, which is why they voted for Chavez over and over and over again.
Norway was meanwhile one of many countries that moved left is response to the global failure of capitalism. If you read up on their history, you'll find that by the 1920s, they had fallen to become what might have been Europe's least successful economy, leaving them ill-prepared to deal with the Great Depression that followed. Coming to power in 1935, social democrats began the process of redefining Norway, a process that went into high gear once WWII came to an end. Today, Norway is one of the most prosperous nations in the world in terms of GDP per capita and capital stock. On the United Nation Human Development Index, Norway has been among the top countries for years, at times occupying the top spot. Socialism did this. Stupid right-wing blather did not.
There is no reason to think leftists will ever want or need to abandon identity politics. It works very well for them and will continue to do so into the foreseeable future.
"Identity politics" is another invention popularized by the right-wing spin machine to make it seem as though agitation against injustice being done to blacks, gays, women or whatever, is in fact being done as some sort of preference for victims who are black, gay, female or whatever rather than because there is freaking injustice going on. It's all trying to turn apples into oranges, and the source of it is quite understandable given that the right has been the principal inflictor and defender of injustice in general in this country for centuries.
Last edited by Reynard32; 10-21-2015 at 07:57 AM..
if you cant give an answer just admit it (or don't respond). do you think you have anyone convinced that you know what you are talking about? how is Venezuela better off today than it was in the past?
Tabula rasa is not an argument, and it's your job to learn, not my job to teach. It's all part of that Personal Responsibility® thing that conservatives like to talk about so much. Maybe practice what you preach on that front for once?
Of course, the American public, in vast numbers have been conditioned over the past few decades to believe up=down. No area has been more greatly affected than of public perception of what this left versus right ideological battle is really about. It can be summarized simply as the battle between authoritarianism versus self determination, or slavery versus freedom.
Interesting that you should bring that up, as while trying to lead the left in its independence and diversity of opinion is much like trying to herd cats, the right has long been known as the home of authoritarian thinking, in the form of both born-followers seeking the next inspirational leader and born-demagogues seeking with silver tongues to exploit fear and insecurity in recruiting a mob to march behind them.
You've an example in this very thread in the numbers of posters who -- knowing nothing at all of Venezuela themselves -- have reflexively chimed in to denounce its turn to socialism. They were told by someone to say that. So they did.
Last edited by Reynard32; 10-21-2015 at 07:59 AM..
Are you kidding? There is a toilet paper shortgage in Venezuela.
Yes, the word on toilet paper shortages does seem to have gotten around. So many folks feeding at the same trough. LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster
And Norway isn't "socialist". It's a Capitalist country with some socialist values.
Norway is positively communist in comparison to what US right-wing economics (I use that term very loosely here) would dictate. And the simple fact remains that in the wake of the global failure of capitalism in the early 20th century, some countries moved to the right and some moved to the left. Norway was one that went to the left, and though they faced staggering obstacles, the rise of democratic socialism indeed marked the beginning of what has been a spectacular economic ascension. You could look it up and would apparently need to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster
And comparing tiny Norway to the US is like comparing a single apple to a truckload of mixed fruit. Not a good comparison.
By such dishonest standards, there would be only India and China that the US could be compared to. No wait, there's also Zimbabwe and the Wiemar Republic that we are so often told we are very soon going to turn into. And in any case, the socialism of Norway -- employed there now for some 80 years -- has greatly benefited Norwegians, just as was noted earlier.
People with a brain wish to reestablish welfare and social programs with competent management and far less waste.
People with a brain that -- in a fine example of identity politics -- has been washed in the waters of belief that "bureaucrats" are an especially incompetent class, and that waste, fraud, and abuse are somehow rampant within welfare and social programs. Both of these notions are of course incorrect.
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