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Old 02-12-2016, 06:40 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,484,723 times
Reputation: 11349

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Vermont. yes? In 2013 Vermont's electric rate was about 45% more than the national average. More than double the cost of Wyoming.

State Electricity Profiles - Energy Information Administration

So? We don't have coal plants in our midst and reap the health benefits of that. Getting treated for major respiratory illness is a lot more expensive than a slightly higher light bill.
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:42 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,484,723 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I have a plan for this. PA exports electric, coal and natural gas to other states causing a lot of environmental damage here. We'll add an environmental impact fee to the electric, natural gas and coal being exported so we can remediate your concerns. Then you can watch your electric rates skyrocket to the moon. Sound like a plan?
We don't need your dirty coal, we have other options available. But I would love to see coal plants price themselves out of the market.


The raped and pillaged landscape of western PA is just a sad sight.
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:50 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
So?
The so is you were trying to imply your electric rates are low, that's simply not the case. The average home uses about 11K kWh per year. An average house in Vermont is paying about $800 more per year for electric than one in Wyoming, Kentucky etc.
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:59 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,484,723 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The so is you were trying to imply your electric rates are low, that's simply not the case. The average home uses about 11K kWh per year. An average house in Vermont is paying about $800 more per year for electric than one in Wyoming, Kentucky etc.

I didn't spend 800 total all last year on electricity. Now seeing as how I'm not all that average in my energy use I did a quick search on the average useage here and I came across this:


Vermont Electricity Rates | Electricity Local


Which suggests the average VT bill is 10 percent below the national average despite a higher KWH rate.


At 50 percent higher (your claim) that means a $20 light bill in your WY example would be $30 in VT. That's hardly going to cause much hurt to the average person.


How much does the average doctor's visit cost to people suffering health problems around those coal plants? A lot more than that savings on the electric bill.
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Old 02-12-2016, 07:29 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I didn't spend 800 total all last year on electricity.

I made mistake in my math, what that should read is the average home in Vermont pays about $400 more per year than average home in Wyoming.


Quote:
How much does the average doctor's visit cost to people suffering health problems around those coal plants? A lot more than that savings on the electric bill.
What's the cost if someone can't afford to go to the doctor at all? We have only scratched the surface with residential electric rates. Energy prices effect the cost of everything like healthcare, food, building materials etc.

We've lost jobs to overseas manufacturers for decades because of labor costs, environmental regulation, taxes etc. One of the few things we have left to keep those jobs here is low cost energy, Do you really want to pile that on to the reasons to move jobs overseas?
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Old 02-12-2016, 07:31 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post


At 50 percent higher (your claim) that means a $20 light bill in your WY example would be $30 in VT. That's hardly going to cause much hurt to the average person.
.
This is not my claim, it's based on the data in the EIA link. Based on the EIA data the average light bill in Wyoming in 2013 is going to be about $66, it will be $100 in Vermont. If you are paying $100 in Wyoming you're paying $150 in Vermont. If you are paying $2000 a year in Wyoming you are paying $3000 in Vermont.
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Old 02-12-2016, 07:40 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,484,723 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I made mistake in my math, what that should read is the average home in Vermont pays about $400 more per year than average home in Wyoming.


What's the cost if someone can't afford to go to the doctor at all? We have only scratched the surface with residential electric rates. Energy prices effect the cost of everything like healthcare, food, building materials etc.

We've lost jobs to overseas manufacturers for decades because of labor costs, environmental regulation, taxes etc. One of the few things we have left to keep those jobs here is low cost energy, Do you really want to pile that on to the reasons to move jobs overseas?

The average family isn't going to be sunk by $400 a year. A major illness caused by living next to a coal plant may quite literally put a person in the grave early.


If you don't have coal plants around you, you'll have less health problems and need the doctor less for those serious health issues coal pollution causes. Prevention is less costly and painful than treatment in reaction.


Free trade is a totally separate issue, a red herring. Unless you want us to eliminate all environmental protection laws and let the smokestacks belch out as much pollution as China's we can't compete even with energy as it's cheaper there too. No, the solution to bringing back manufacturing is to eliminate free trade agreements with countries that do not have comparable wages and environmental laws. But that's another topic.
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Old 02-12-2016, 07:46 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,484,723 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
This is not my claim, it's based on the data in the EIA link. Based on the EIA data the average light bill in Wyoming in 2013 is going to be about $66, it will be $100 in Vermont. If you are paying $100 in Wyoming you're paying $150 in Vermont. If you are paying $2000 a year in Wyoming you are paying $3000 in Vermont.

As stated in the other post the difference isn't enough to ruin the average family financially, and there are greater benefits. Look at the state by state health rankings here. None of the heavy coal burning states ranks too well.


State public health statistics | America's Health Rankings
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:23 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The average family isn't going to be sunk by $400 a year.
$400 for low income family is quite a bit and as I said we're are just scratching the surface with the electric bill.



Quote:
.
No, the solution to bringing back manufacturing is to eliminate free trade agreements with countries that do not have comparable wages and environmental laws. But that's another topic.
This is not going to happen so what's your plan now?
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:25 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Look at the state by state health rankings here. None of the heavy coal burning states ranks too well.


State public health statistics | America's Health Rankings
Since you are using this reference specifically what in this study indicates that their findings is caused by coal?
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