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No one is claiming that bombs can't be made and used correctly, the point is that in recent examples, the psychotics are usually less successful with them.
San Bernardino there were no bombs, just bomb making materials, and lets be honest, if a expert in demo and munitions came into your home they could identify bomb making materials too. They just had a little more than is reasonable. BATFE confirmed that they didn't find pipe bombs, just lengths of pipe that could be used to make pipe bombs.
From what I remember, there were bombs left at the scene that didn't go off, that were meant to take out first responders.
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Columbine, is interesting, the primary plan was to use bombs (they were both interested in Timothy McVeigh and what he did at the Alfred P. Murrah building and wanted to top it). Then Klebold and Harris managed to obtain guns, and reduced or stopped investing effort in their bomb making plans.
You were there? How do you know the guns distracted from their bomb making plans? Like in San Bernardino, ( except in reverse ) the primary objective of the killers was to detonate the bombs, and hide in the woods, shootings first responders and other students as they fled the school. When the bombs failed to detonate, they decided to just start shooting. One bomb did detonate in the car of one of the killers, 12 hours after it was intended to.
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So because of guns there was a means to distract them from the development of their bombs, so there's good reason to think that guns actually reduced the body count at Columbine.
I've got to give it to you, that's about the best spin I've ever heard.
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So of your examples only one really is relevant, and that one may have resulted in more death and injury without guns, even if K & H had resorted to going suicide bomber, then you'd be looking at at least 488 dead or seriously injured. Personally my opinion is and always has been that the loss of life from Booms is generally up to an order of magnitude higher than the loss of life from Bangs.
My point isn't that bombs can't be used successfully. My only point is that of all the attacks in recent history, there is a decent sample size to examine from with the use of both bombs and firearms, but only one has a mostly successful track record of actually working out the way the killers intended.
True, but how do you know if this was planned weeks in advance or the man woke up one day and decided to shoot people?
I agree that taking a gun away from someone who is mentally unstable won't cure him. However, should we stop looking for a cure for lung cancer because, no matter how much we accomplish, there will always be people who smoke?
I'm having a hard time relating to the smoking analogy. We all know how cigarettes cause cancer, but when are they used to save lives?
I personally find pharmaceuticals to be a closer analogy. They can be used for good or bad. How can we minimize the bad without affecting the good?
You can never have an efficient totalitarian police state, when it has to be “benevolent” and fearful of millions of armed citizens. And you can’t disarm millions of armed citizens when they won’t tell you where the arms are. And you can’t arrest them until you criminalize their disobedience to “reasonable” gun restrictions and “common sense” registration. And you can’t tolerate their belief that they have an “endowed right” to self defense against tyranny, that supersedes your political power of the bigger gun.
• An Armed Populace Fears No Government.
• A Disarmed Populace Fears All Government.
Let me play Devil's advocate for moment and turn your theory around on you....
Had you ever considered that an armed populace is actually what spawns a totalitarian police state? I mean, when the public is as armed as it is, it's little wonder that our police forces have become as militarized as they have and adopt the "Us vs. Them" attitude that they have. 30 years ago, police were still carrying the classic six shooter. Then, in the late 80's and early 90's when the public started to favor semi-autos, and the criminals were outgunning the police, law enforcement started packing more firepower too.
So the irony is that the armed populace that is seen as protection from a totalitarian police state is the very thing that leads to a totalitarian police state in the first place....
Just thinking outside the box here, and trying to look at the situation from both sides as a matter of intellectual clarity and honesty.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 02-26-2016 at 05:44 PM..
True, but how do you know if this was planned weeks in advance or the man woke up one day and decided to shoot people?
I agree that taking a gun away from someone who is mentally unstable won't cure him. However, should we stop looking for a cure for lung cancer because, no matter how much we accomplish, there will always be people who smoke?
I'd have to guess that this was a heat of the moment thing. Looking at his facebook page, this guy was posting videos of himself singing to a music video, dancing, etc. Just days ago he was at the zoo with his kids and said he loved seeing the wildlife. Just going by that page, there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary.
Two hours before the shooting began, he was served a protection order by the police for beating his girlfriend. He was served at work, and I'm wondering if that didn't get him fired, and then he just lost it.
I'd have to guess that this was a heat of the moment thing. Looking at his facebook page, this guy was posting videos of himself singing to a music video, dancing, etc. Just days ago he was at the zoo with his kids and said he loved seeing the wildlife. Just going by that page, there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary.
Two hours before the shooting began, he was served a protection order by the police for beating his girlfriend. He was served at work, and I'm wondering if that didn't get him fired, and then he just lost it.
Many sociopaths know how to hide their nature. Psychopaths don't. Could you be confusing the two?
Recall all of the countless neighbor interviews... "s/he seemed like such a nice person, I can't believe they'd do something like this..."
Realistically their socioeconomic climate precludes them from accessing better opportunities to begin with so in some cases it's not entirely their fault.
Hogwash.
One chooses to commit a crime, whether they are socioeconomically disadvantaged or not. There are plenty of poor people who DON'T commit crime, and likewise there are many rich people who do commit crime.
There is definitely a correlation between poverty and crime, but that doesn't excuse the criminal from the responsibility for his or her actions. It is always "their fault"....
I'd have to guess that this was a heat of the moment thing. Looking at his facebook page, this guy was posting videos of himself singing to a music video, dancing, etc. Just days ago he was at the zoo with his kids and said he loved seeing the wildlife. Just going by that page, there was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary.
Two hours before the shooting began, he was served a protection order by the police for beating his girlfriend. He was served at work, and I'm wondering if that didn't get him fired, and then he just lost it.
On the news tonight they showed a video from his FB page with him shooting the rifle. They said some unnamed woman gave him the gun.
One chooses to commit a crime, whether they are socioeconomically disadvantaged or not. There are plenty of poor people who DON'T commit crime, and likewise there are many rich people who do commit crime.
There is definitely a correlation between poverty and crime, but that doesn't excuse the criminal from the responsibility for his or her actions. It is always "their fault"....
That's like saying some cornered dogs don't bite, and when they do, it's solely the fault of the dog. Ignoring the building pressure for people in desperate situations is a bit disingenuous IMO.
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