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You don't think we all know that STEM isn't for the overwhelming majority of whites?
It isn't. STEM is overwhelmingly Asian.
I have a theory as to why more blacks don't enter STEM. And it is mainly because of many black communities, it is centered around the church. So many black kids are raised by grandparents and in my grandmothers generation, you were really never encouraged to ask too many questions. A big part of being successful in STEM is to have a very curious mind. I feel many aspects of the black community really doesn't encourage that level of curiosity. Between teachers, grandparents, the church, and parents, most black kids are largely discouraged from being curious about anything.
I work in STEM, because there is nothing else I could possibly do. I am just too curious of a person, and was a very curious child. The good thing about me is I had a father who was curious as well. Actually my father was a drug addict, but that was a blessing in disguise because it made him even MORE curious about stuff. My mother was also a pretty curious person too. My grandmother was as well, but she didn't encourage her children to be curious. But she never told them NOT to be either. So I just happened to have been raised in a family full of strange people who just asked a lot of weird questions. And that's important because that level of curiosity makes STEM very very fun.
I often ask a lot of dumb questions. It drives my girlfriend crazy (she's also black). But the minute I stop asking question is the minute I somewhat lose a big part of who I am.
I don't believe Asians really are all that more curious. And I think they ALSO live in households that don't encourage you ask too many questions. The difference is that Asians parents often make their kids go into these majors. And upsetting your parents is something not encouraged in Asian homes.
I feel the only culture that really encourages that level of curiosity are white homes.
The problem is that there are not a lot of high school African American's who can score high enough on the SAT to get too many of them into the STEM fields. It's really a primary education role that we're looking at, along with income and demographics that result in things like this. We can't fix it from the top, because the lower levels need to be fixed first in order for African Americans to be able to see Tech as a career opportunity and have the SAT scores to get into STEM majors in the first place.
I totally agree. I'm in the schools. At one HS I suggested tech courses like gaming and web development. Both of those are fun classes. At the college level there are certificate programs, 2 year programs and 4 year programs. And those 2 topics don't always involve "programming" per say as other majors play a big part in those 2 industries.
School said "Thanks but we'll stick with our program". Their "program" consists of teaching HS kids how to work with Photoshop. This is their "graphics" class. Adobe must have some educational deal with these schools because so many of them that I've been in all have a "Graphics" class and are teaching photoshop.
Most of the times I think the school officials aren't in it for the kids best interest.
I have a theory as to why more blacks don't enter STEM. And it is mainly because of many black communities, it is centered around the church. So many black kids are raised by grandparents and in my grandmothers generation, you were really never encouraged to ask too many questions. A big part of being successful in STEM is to have a very curious mind. I feel many aspects of the black community really doesn't encourage that level of curiosity. Between teachers, grandparents, the church, and parents, most black kids are largely discouraged from being curious about anything.
I work in STEM, because there is nothing else I could possibly do. I am just too curious of a person, and was a very curious child. The good thing about me is I had a father who was curious as well. Actually my father was a drug addict, but that was a blessing in disguise because it made him even MORE curious about stuff. My mother was also a pretty curious person too. My grandmother was as well, but she didn't encourage her children to be curious. But she never told them NOT to be either. So I just happened to have been raised in a family full of strange people who just asked a lot of weird questions. And that's important because that level of curiosity makes STEM very very fun.
I often ask a lot of dumb questions. It drives my girlfriend crazy (she's also black). But the minute I stop asking question is the minute I somewhat lose a big part of who I am.
I don't believe Asians really are all that more curious. And I think they ALSO live in households that don't encourage you ask too many questions. The difference is that Asians parents often make their kids go into these majors. And upsetting your parents is something not encouraged in Asian homes.
I feel the only culture that really encourages that level of curiosity are white homes.
Where did you get this strange idea? My parents and grandparents encouraged me to be curious about all sorts of things, and I was. I also tested well in math and science. But when I got to college, I tried a programing class and found it way too boring. I probably wold have liked an applied math major. But I could never code, it is not my personality type. I like to collaborate and work on projects in groups. I also like to work on the bigger picture process. So the only "STEM" job for me is product manager. But not a day to day developer.
I did find growing up that not all teachers were equally encouraging to me. I have a math teacher in 8th grade who told me to join the math team. I did, and I joined the science team and continued that through high school. I tested well in math from an early age and excelled there.
But people like me got disinterested because of the culture of the STEM classes. At my school, for lack of a better term, the people in those classes were evil. It wasn't a culture I wanted to join. Inclusion matters. A lot of women and people of color feel excluded at many points in their academic careers, and take another path. It is not for lack of aptitude.
Yes and no. I work in tech. I am not an engineer. There are plenty of jobs in tech for liberal arts majors and whatever general stuff there is. Yet few of these jobs are filed by black people (and other people of color). Why? Tech is cliquey. Let me sum it up for you, and how institutionalized it is.
Think of your favorite recent startup now powerhouse tech company (you can use Google or Facebook.).
The average "unicorn" startup is founded by a few friends, engineers, who met in college. Maybe they are still in college. Or maybe they are recent grads. They have time, and some family resources to help then seed their idea. They can afford to work on this side project, because they aren't super concerned with money right now. Family support or otherwise.
They go and look for some funding, the VCs like 20-something white guys who went to a good college. They get some money because they match the pattern.
Now they need to hire their firrst few engineers. They call their friends, roommates, maybe former coworkers if they are older. As we know, most people are friends with people like them.
Now fast forward, the company is getting more successful, they need new employees. At this stage everyone is working late and spending a lot of time together. They need people who will fit in. They ask all of the employees to refer their friends. The next wave of hires look pretty similar to the first batch. They are all friends.
Now they need more people. The friend circle is tapped. So they go back to their alma mater, because they have connections. Our startup wants to be super successful, so they only recruit from the "top tier schools," and they have an intensive interview process. Keep in mind the schools that graduate the most Black and Latino engineers are not UC Berkeley, Harvard, Stanford and MIT (Also Wisconsin). But this is the list that gets recruited from. If you are in the Bay Area, you might stop by San Jose State.
So you come in for the interview. And maybe you even know about the whiteboard interview. You are all prepped. You went to Stanford, you kinda match the pattern. And then there is the cultural fit. Which is code word for "do I want to hang our with you at happy hour and on the weekends."
Now let's remind ourselves that most people hang out with people who are like them. And these engineers are a little more likely to be socially awkward than other professions. So the odds are good you won't pass the cultural fit interview. You need to like skiing (maybe snowboarding), craft beer (or perhaps craft spirits). Or rock climbing. Don't forget about that. And maybe bicycling. And "indie" music. Here is another point of exit.
Now the average "unicorn" startup doesn't even think about having HR until they hit 50 people. And these first 50 got all of the good equity. And the HR is pretty understaffed, the company is growing fast. They are still relying on internal referrals, now you get a cash bonus if your friend gets hired. They keep going to the same old job fairs.
So a few years ago I worked on a project to get tech companies to recruit at HBCUs. Here are some of the rejections we heard:
1. No budget to travel for recruiting so we only recruit locally (Stanford, UC Berkeley and San Jose State)
2. I don't know anyone from those schools, how will I know if they are good engineers. I'd rather recruit from places with guaranteed quality.
Now let's pretend said tech company is at the next phase. They need experienced people. And the people with the right experience come from other tech companies that have already passed that stage. So suddenly, for my startup, I only want people who have come from the big name companies (Google, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, whatever). And keep in mind all of them grew up the same way: picking pools of candidates from their friends, roommates and former coworkers who look like them.
And that is why tech isn't diverse.
Now let's pretend you somehow got around all of that and made it in the door. You were the only person who looks like you. And suddenly you are either the token <insert identity here> or you are supposed to speak for your group all the time. You don't feel very included. And you leave. Opt out and find another industry.
In a nutshell:
1. insular networks
2. retention once you get in the door
a. feeling isolated
b. have to represent for all people of your group
c. diversity, inclusion, retention are not prioritized
d. without full participation in the "clique" it is hard to get ahead
Personally, I am not doing badly in my career, but not being in the "clique" has hurt my opportunities for advancement. My network was not big enough at all. And tech companies use the same recruiting techniques to recruit non-engineers as well. They still come in via the personal networks. But what is different in the the idea of "who you know" in tech, there is an added layer of "can we be BFFS because we will be working long hours, hanging out after work, and basically spending all of our time together." Makes it a lot harder to get in the door.
B. Having to represent for all people of your ( any minority) group is a huge issue in tech.
Incompetent jerks come in all flavors. While a white male incompetent jerk is viewed as an individual, an incompetent jerk who is not a white male tends to be viewed as representing their entire race, sex, sexual preference and/ or ethnicity group.
And then there are the subsets. There is a defined pecking order within the Asian community. You have not seen anything until you work with a team comprised of diverse Asian ethnic groups. The only common ground is that all women tend to be perceived as inferior.
So many otherwise sharp people who are challenged to distinguish between one and some and some and all when it comes to judging other humans.
Here's an interview with a guy who talks about his experiences as a Black man in the tech industry. I found it insightful. Being Black In The Tech Industry : NPR
I think he sums it up well here:
Quote:
So one of the things that I do when I first start my class is I ask my students how much programming experience they have.
And the very first semester that I taught, what I found interesting was that some of my students had never programmed before they'd got to college. And I clearly articulated to them that if you want a job in the Valley, the people that you're competing with for those jobs, a lot them probably started programming sixth, seventh, eighth grade and have been doing it for years.
And so it's a focus on making that extra effort and that extra commitment to kind of get back on track to be successful and be competitive.
And this really applies to not just blacks, but also women in tech, and any other kind of minorities. You typically need to start young, in 6th, 7th, 8th grade, in order to excel.
And this really applies to not just blacks, but also women in tech, and any other kind of minorities. You typically need to start young, in 6th, 7th, 8th grade, in order to excel.
Gaming is where they need to start. Writing addons for games. Slowly pick up the nuances and language skills. There's opportunity if you look for it.
I mentored a few myself with WOW addons as a good way to hone in on my lua skills (script language).
Even made changes to existing scripts and posted the changes until the owner could fix his code.
The gaming community is where they need to start.
This is the biggest gaming community site for addons for a host of games.
Gaming is where they need to start. Writing addons for games. Slowly pick up the nuances and language skills. There's opportunity if you look for it.
I mentored a few myself with WOW addons as a good way to hone in on my lua skills (script language).
Even made changes to existing scripts and posted the changes until the owner could fix his code.
The gaming community is where they need to start.
This is the biggest gaming community site for addons for a host of games.
i agree. i think my first foray into tech was tweaking my autoexec.bat and config.sys files on DOS 6.22 so my games would have more free RAM. After that , building web pages was a big learning experience. That and writing scripts for IRC clients.
i think blacks have the excuse of $$. PC's cost a great deal of money back in the day (and today still) , so black kids in the past ~20 years are going to be statistically less likely to have internet and a pc as white kids.
but with gender, money isn't an excuse. Women's lack of interest in programming and computer science is deeper rooted, and has to be either biological or cultural.
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