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It's fun to watch so called "progressives" not only believe & defend everything the corporations feed them, but attack anyone who questions the integrity of said corporations. Really, if you can't trust multinational, Big Pharma corporations, who can you trust?
Those who vaccinate take the tiny risk of the vaccine to protect themselves, but they also protect you, whether you want to admit it or not. You enjoy a low risk of not getting a vaccine preventable disease without the tiny risk of taking the vaccine yourself. If you do not vaccinate you are indeed taking a free ride on those who do.
If the child in the OP had been vaccinated he most likely would have never gotten sick.
No, you are not taking a free ride. This is a canard used by zealots of many stripes, in this case pro vaccine zealots.
This "free ride" argument is the same as the guy who wants to put up a fence and demands his neighbor pay for half. If you want a fence, go ahead and put up a fence - don't get pissy with the neighbor because he doesn't want to "pay" but will still benefit from the fence. You're the one who wants the fence, it's not up to the neighbor to share the cost when he doesn't particularly want a fence, just because you now want a fence.
Same with vaccines. Have at it, feel free. Don't expect or try to force me into it though, I don't want it. If I happen to benefit from it through no fault of my own, that's not on me - that's on you. I have zero obligation to you or anyone.
This isn't one of those questions. It's an honest question, IF these meds work as claims & are totally safe, then why do care if other's do not take them? It's our bodies & our choice. Let us take the risk.
I understand what your saying about those with medical reasons who can't take them & I don't know what the answer is there. No one has the right to force anyone to tell, take, believe, vote your taking choice away from them.
My mom was a nurse for some where close to 45 years & even she wouldn't take a flu shot nor did she like taking over the counter drugs for the reason's I mention in post above. Hospital's are in the business of making money today not helping. As well as the big pharm.
I will say this & forgive me if it sounds harsh but it is true. In nature the strong survive the world can be harsh & very cruel. If a mother of said animal knows that her child isn't strong & won't make it she eats it & uses the it to feed those who are strong. Some are just not built to survive this world & in turn in kept the population down & in check.
Now I'm sure I'll get called heartless, etc. Yet in the end this world isn't made for everyone.
Flame on.
I have seen this with litters of stray cats. The weak, runt of the litter cannot nurse. His bigger, stronger litter mates will push him out of the way to nurse from their mother. This cat will get weaker, and weaker until the the mother will eat him. Food for the mother and the other kittens. I saw this as child. My Aunt, who grew up on a farm said this, as you said, the strong kittens will nurse, thrive, and grow up to pass on their healthier genes to their offspring. How nature intended the species to survive.
As I have mentioned before, my Great-Grandma had 5 children and only one survived to adulthood. My Grandma had 4 children and every one survived to adulthood.
Everyone on here keeps talking about that 1918 Flu Pandemic. My Grandma was pregnant with my Dad during the 1918 Flu Pandemic. Yes, a PREGNANT woman. She also had 3 other young children alive during that Pandemic. Pregnant woman and young children. The most vulnerable members of society?
So we get back to that "litter" and the runt. Grandma was the only one of her siblings to reach adulthood. She, my unborn Dad, and all of her other 3 children survived that Pandemic. Natural order of life?
Someone on here said it was the "healthiest with the strongest immune systems" who were dying. I do not believe that for one minute. So I suppose my pregnant Grandma and her 3 young children under 10 survived because they were weak? Precisely the opposite, just as it in the animal kingdom.
Humans are part of the animal kingdom too. I don't want to sound callous here, but sometimes I feel we are upsetting the natural balance of life. Sad as it might be, not every baby was meant to survive to adulthood. Sad as it might be, not all elderly were meant to live to longer and longer ages,
We are going to pay the priced some day for trying to create "healthier" and "healthier" people artificially.
No, you are not taking a free ride. This is a canard used by zealots of many stripes, in this case pro vaccine zealots.
This "free ride" argument is the same as the guy who wants to put up a fence and demands his neighbor pay for half. If you want a fence, go ahead and put up a fence - don't get pissy with the neighbor because he doesn't want to "pay" but will still benefit from the fence. You're the one who wants the fence, it's not up to the neighbor to share the cost when he doesn't particularly want a fence, just because you now want a fence.
Same with vaccines. Have at it, feel free. Don't expect or try to force me into it though, I don't want it. If I happen to benefit from it through no fault of my own, that's not on me - that's on you. I have zero obligation to you or anyone.
Just because you don't understand or care to understand about vaccinations makes very little difference to microbes. The science is clear whether you choose to believe or not. Ignorance isn't bliss just because any idiot thinks they know something because they read it on the internet.
Humans are part of the animal kingdom too. I don't want to sound callous here, but sometimes I feel we are upsetting the natural balance of life. Sad as it might be, not every baby was meant to survive to adulthood. Sad as it might be, not all elderly were meant to live to longer and longer ages,
Are you okay with that being yourself or a loved one? Maybe a loved one won't reach adulthood? Cool with that?
No, you are not taking a free ride. This is a canard used by zealots of many stripes, in this case pro vaccine zealots.
This "free ride" argument is the same as the guy who wants to put up a fence and demands his neighbor pay for half. If you want a fence, go ahead and put up a fence - don't get pissy with the neighbor because he doesn't want to "pay" but will still benefit from the fence. You're the one who wants the fence, it's not up to the neighbor to share the cost when he doesn't particularly want a fence, just because you now want a fence.
Same with vaccines. Have at it, feel free. Don't expect or try to force me into it though, I don't want it. If I happen to benefit from it through no fault of my own, that's not on me - that's on you. I have zero obligation to you or anyone.
Since all of us who are vaccinated reduce the risk you will be infected by a vaccine preventable disease even if you are not vaccinated, you are getting a free ride: the benefit of vaccination with none of the (tiny, tiny) risk of taking the vaccine itself. You may deny it all you want, you can say you do not want the protection, but it is still there.
Your fence analogy is faulty. Vaccine refusers are people who would love for their neighbors to put up fences but are unwilling to share the cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
I have seen this with litters of stray cats. The weak, runt of the litter cannot nurse. His bigger, stronger litter mates will push him out of the way to nurse from their mother. This cat will get weaker, and weaker until the the mother will eat him. Food for the mother and the other kittens. I saw this as child. My Aunt, who grew up on a farm said this, as you said, the strong kittens will nurse, thrive, and grow up to pass on their healthier genes to their offspring. How nature intended the species to survive.
As I have mentioned before, my Great-Grandma had 5 children and only one survived to adulthood. My Grandma had 4 children and every one survived to adulthood.
Everyone on here keeps talking about that 1918 Flu Pandemic. My Grandma was pregnant with my Dad during the 1918 Flu Pandemic. Yes, a PREGNANT woman. She also had 3 other young children alive during that Pandemic. Pregnant woman and young children. The most vulnerable members of society?
So we get back to that "litter" and the runt. Grandma was the only one of her siblings to reach adulthood. She, my unborn Dad, and all of her other 3 children survived that Pandemic. Natural order of life?
Someone on here said it was the "healthiest with the strongest immune systems" who were dying. I do not believe that for one minute. So I suppose my pregnant Grandma and her 3 young children under 10 survived because they were weak? Precisely the opposite, just as it in the animal kingdom.
Humans are part of the animal kingdom too. I don't want to sound callous here, but sometimes I feel we are upsetting the natural balance of life. Sad as it might be, not every baby was meant to survive to adulthood. Sad as it might be, not all elderly were meant to live to longer and longer ages,
We are going to pay the priced some day for trying to create "healthier" and "healthier" people artificially.
The 1918 flu epidemic did kill young healthy people. That's a fact. It does not matter whether you believe it or not. It also killed the old and the young, but about half those who died were between the ages of 20 and 40 and 99% were under 65.
Obviously some people survived. Not everyone caught the flu, though about one third of everyone in the world did. Your grandma anecdote does not mean anything. Did grandma and her three young children get the flu? If not, they were just part of the population who did not get the flu, which may mean they were just lucky enough to avoid infection.
If not every baby was "meant" to survive to adulthood, does that mean we should let a five year old die from appendicitis? If a ten year old is in an automobile crash and has multiple severe injuries, should we just let him die? As far as the elderly are concerned, they are not only living to older ages but being vigorous into older ages. Should we let a grandma who is active and mentally sharp at age 80 die from a treatable infection just because she is 80?
At any rate, I think many (most?) schools require proof of vaccination before allowing a student to attend. Or is that outdated information?
You can get an exemption in every state for medical reasons. This category is pretty narrow, but there is some leeway in some states. All but CA, MS and W Va allow for religious and/or personal belief exemptions as well.
Since all of us who are vaccinated reduce the risk you will be infected by a vaccine preventable disease even if you are not vaccinated, you are getting a free ride: the benefit of vaccination with none of the (tiny, tiny) risk of taking the vaccine itself. You may deny it all you want, you can say you do not want the protection, but it is still there.
Your fence analogy is faulty. Vaccine refusers are people who would love for their neighbors to put up fences but are unwilling to share the cost
No Mrs Q, you're incorrect again because you're not actually reading what I'm saying. I acknowledged that sure, I might incidentally benefit from your choice to vaccinate, but that is not my problem - it's yours. Pay close attention, I'll say it again, your choice to vaccinate and my benefit from your choice is your tough tittay, not mine.
You can get as mad as you want, stomp your feet, hold your breath etc, but the fact remains - I do not owe you or anyone else anything for your actions. I am under no obligation or mandate to even acknowledge "the herd", much less be expected to medicate for said herd.
You can feel free to believe in herds, the greater good, to "each according to his needs, from each according to his ability" and whatever else strikes your fancy. Have at it, that's your liberty. MY liberty is worth no less than yours, regardless of your OPINION on who should do what. And my liberty is to not take vaccines, not vaccinate my children.
Deal with it.
You'll never get your way, no matter how much you feel entitled to control others. Ain't gonna happen lady, sorry.
The only thing that matters is freedom of choice to either vaccinate or not. The whole "free rider" argument is false. Those who wish to vaccinate are free to do so, the fact that they can't force their views on others only means that there is equality in choice (thankfully).
Pro vaccination people are some of the most rabid zealots since Jonestown.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it mandate a person is obligated to join a herd, and certainly no mandate to join in its immunity.
The OP wasn't even about vaccines, it's about delaying needed medical help.
There are a lot of issues we face today that aren't in the constitution....1787 vs 2016. So we sit back and say this isn't in the constitution. We have evolved as a people and a nation.
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