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The voting age is lowered to 16, not 12. 16 is when many youths start working, if they work and pay taxes they should be able to vote. 16 is also an age when many begin to drive, and many 16 yr-old are prosecuted as adults if they ever commit crimes. So you can't hide behind the "too young" argument when 16 yr olds are already given adult responsibility and treated like adults in the justice system in our society.
No one is proposing that but you.
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Uh-huh. 16 is not 12. But the voting age was once 21 and now lowering it to 16...where does it end? You broached the subject of The prosecution of juveniles as adults is still something that is up to the discretion of a prosecutor is done case by case, not a blanket law like the drinking age. The special circumstance of committing a violent crime can't be compared to the typical rites of passage that the majority of normal people go through that I listed (driving, property purchase, marriage, etc.) That is an instance of punishing someone who is a danger to society, not the same as determining whether they've acquired the skills and knowledge for common adult activities. For example it's not up to individual liquor store owners whether they want to sell cigarettes or alcohol to a 16 year-old, or individual bankers to open accounts for minors with no parental signature or landlords to lease to them with no adult co-signer.
No I'm not proposing those things, but you're talking about voter turnout for the sake of voter turnout without context--I'm giving you an example of how ridiculous it can be. If you really believe in voter turnout for turnout's sake, why wouldn't you support compulsory voting like they have in Peru?
Because CA is the largest economy in the union, the 8th largest economy in the world (if it is own country), and the United States needs CA more than CA needs the United States.
On the other hand, giving CA to Mexico would immediatly make Mexico a top 5 economy in the world; which would raise their wages and standard of living; and perhaps render it pointless for Mexicans to sneak across the border when they can find comparable jobs at home. So maybe you have something there.
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Uh; knowing Mexico, IF Calif was given to that country, that state would pretty much die since NO "Hispanic" country has it together.
OTOH: IF Calif and Mexico got together, it could very will KILL Mexico since that's state's economy is much stronger.
Too; that WOULD touch off a civil war in Calif since except for the SF Bay Area and LA County, MOST of that state's still the US, NOT "LatAm" in culture.
Uh-huh. 16 is not 12. But the voting age was once 21 and now lowering it to 16...where does it end? You broached the subject of The prosecution of juveniles as adults is still something that is up to the discretion of a prosecutor is done case by case, not a blanket law like the drinking age. The special circumstance of committing a violent crime can't be compared to the typical rites of passage that the majority of normal people go through that I listed (driving, property purchase, marriage, etc.) That is an instance of punishing someone who is a danger to society, not the same as determining whether they've acquired the skills and knowledge for common adult activities. For example it's not up to individual liquor store owners whether they want to sell cigarettes or alcohol to a 16 year-old, or individual bankers to open accounts for minors with no parental signature or landlords to lease to them with no adult co-signer.
No, it's not a punishment thing, you can punish a 16-yr-old as a child; to punish a 16 year old as an adult is to have an underlying assumption that 16 yr-olds do have the same cognition and understanding of the law as an adult. Having the same cognition and understanding of the law as an adult essentially qualify them to vote. You can argue that it's a case by case, but when you look at the cases it's clear the court usually try minors as adults in heinous crime and try them as minors in petty crime - the underlying logic is that 16 and 17 yr olds may not be up to task on the small stuff but they are street on the big important stuff.
We only need to establish that 16 yr olds are treated like adults on some big instances to justify giving them voting rights. You can argue that they can't get marry or serve in the military but we have other instances where they are treated like adults - 16 yr olds are allowed to drive, to work, to pay taxes, to serve the same legal punishment as adults.
So essentially we do treat them like adults and give them adult responsibilities in many, but not all, instances. Voting is basically an extension of that. So again, you can't hide behind the "too young" argument when there are many cases where we do not think they are too young.
You can question how well versed 16 yr olds are in political issues, but that's a different argument altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaphawoman
No I'm not proposing those things, but you're talking about voter turnout for the sake of voter turnout without context--I'm giving you an example of how ridiculous it can be. If you really believe in voter turnout for turnout's sake, why wouldn't you support compulsory voting like they have in Peru?
Because people like me have common sense and don't push things to extreme.
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Heck, I thought California had already been given to Mexico. That reminds me...I've got to bone up on my spanish. I'm probably missing out on some good bargains at the grocery store as all the bargain announcements are in espanol...y lowes, home depot, y walmart tambien. Viva Tijuana del Norte!
Heck, I thought California had already been given to Mexico. That reminds me...I've got to bone up on my spanish. I'm probably missing out on some good bargains at the grocery store as all the bargain announcements are in espanol...y lowes, home depot, y walmart tambien. Viva Tijuana del Norte!
Sears is really bad here in So. Calif. with only making their announcements over the intercom only in Spanish no English. WTH?
Because we'd be punishing all of the areas that are forced to share their state with crackpots.
Just make Jefferson a state already
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Heck, I thought California had already been given to Mexico. That reminds me...I've got to bone up on my spanish. I'm probably missing out on some good bargains at the grocery store as all the bargain announcements are in espanol...y lowes, home depot, y walmart tambien. Viva Tijuana del Norte!
