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Old 06-20-2016, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Eastern Tennessee
4,385 posts, read 4,391,598 times
Reputation: 12689

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Off to a good start.
More or less agreeing to this point.
Now we get into a complex analysis.
The concept I'm working with is GWP gross world product.


If you move a job from a $20hr labor pool to a $1hr labor pool and the person that lost their job replaces it with a job at $15hr, then GWP has contracted by $4hr per laborer involved in the exchange.
If on the other hand if you require that the new job holder gets $4hr over the local labor rate then there is no contraction in GWP.


Moving a job from a high labor rate market to a lower labor rate one is wealth redistribution. Preventing that can't be called wealth redistribution.


A contraction in GWP means economic hard times and this is hard on the consumers.
Eventually.
The beginning was subtle. Back in the 70's a few jobs left the USA to lower wage earners overseas. This chiefly began in the garment industry. A few workers lost relatively low wage jobs here but most consumers enjoyed lower costs of shirts and pants made elsewhere.
Most folks didn't care because it wasn't their job that was lost and, heck, the cloths were cheaper.
Fast forward to now where it is cars, steel, appliances, tires --- EVERYTHING that is made cheaper elsewhere and American workers have lost a bunch of jobs and NOW --- yes, it is hard on consumers.
As the famous philosopher Pogo said "we have met the enemy and he is us". We WANTED those cheap shirts and pants and didn't care if our neighbors lost their jobs in the process. But when car makers, steel workers and lots of other workers lost their jobs to overseas companies it was (and is) a different story

 
Old 06-20-2016, 05:47 PM
 
62,970 posts, read 29,152,361 times
Reputation: 18593
Quote:
Originally Posted by grampaTom View Post
Eventually.
The beginning was subtle. Back in the 70's a few jobs left the USA to lower wage earners overseas. This chiefly began in the garment industry. A few workers lost relatively low wage jobs here but most consumers enjoyed lower costs of shirts and pants made elsewhere.
Most folks didn't care because it wasn't their job that was lost and, heck, the cloths were cheaper.
Fast forward to now where it is cars, steel, appliances, tires --- EVERYTHING that is made cheaper elsewhere and American workers have lost a bunch of jobs and NOW --- yes, it is hard on consumers.
As the famous philosopher Pogo said "we have met the enemy and he is us". We WANTED those cheap shirts and pants and didn't care if our neighbors lost their jobs in the process. But when car makers, steel workers and lots of other workers lost their jobs to overseas companies it was (and is) a different story
Who's "we"? Certainly not Americans who have lost their jobs to outsourcing and those of us who want to retain American jobs at home rather than having access to some cheap foreign made goods.


Factor in illegal immigration and once good paying blue-collared jobs have disappeared. It needs to stop.
 
Old 06-20-2016, 06:31 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,386,010 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by grampaTom View Post
Eventually.
The beginning was subtle. Back in the 70's a few jobs left the USA to lower wage earners overseas. This chiefly began in the garment industry. A few workers lost relatively low wage jobs here but most consumers enjoyed lower costs of shirts and pants made elsewhere.
Most folks didn't care because it wasn't their job that was lost and, heck, the cloths were cheaper.
Fast forward to now where it is cars, steel, appliances, tires --- EVERYTHING that is made cheaper elsewhere and American workers have lost a bunch of jobs and NOW --- yes, it is hard on consumers.
As the famous philosopher Pogo said "we have met the enemy and he is us". We WANTED those cheap shirts and pants and didn't care if our neighbors lost their jobs in the process. But when car makers, steel workers and lots of other workers lost their jobs to overseas companies it was (and is) a different story
But here is the kicker, those that got our jobs are now out of work because we can't buy those products anymore. GWP contracts.


Higher wages everywhere.
 
Old 06-20-2016, 06:32 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,386,010 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Who's "we"? Certainly not Americans who have lost their jobs to outsourcing and those of us who want to retain American jobs at home rather than having access to some cheap foreign made goods.


Factor in illegal immigration and once good paying blue-collared jobs have disappeared. It needs to stop.
Post industrial, service economy. Screw that I want to make stuff.
 
Old 06-21-2016, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,938,715 times
Reputation: 8365
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Off to a good start.
More or less agreeing to this point.
Now we get into a complex analysis.
The concept I'm working with is GWP gross world product.


If you move a job from a $20hr labor pool to a $1hr labor pool and the person that lost their job replaces it with a job at $15hr, then GWP has contracted by $4hr per laborer involved in the exchange.
If on the other hand if you require that the new job holder gets $4hr over the local labor rate then there is no contraction in GWP.


Moving a job from a high labor rate market to a lower labor rate one is wealth redistribution. Preventing that can't be called wealth redistribution.


A contraction in GWP means economic hard times and this is hard on the consumers.
Well said; some seem to be ignorant or disingenuous to not see this.
 
Old 06-21-2016, 04:27 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,793,395 times
Reputation: 2366
If a world government is so bad, why do all the advanced extraterrestrials in science fiction have world governments?

You never see a more advanced alien world with nationalists borders. And if you do, it's treated as a problem that needs to be solved by the even more advanced humans of the future who have long since dispensed with national borders.
 
Old 06-21-2016, 09:40 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
It isn't like what we have been doing, is working.
 
Old 06-21-2016, 10:09 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,386,010 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
If a world government is so bad, why do all the advanced extraterrestrials in science fiction have world governments?

You never see a more advanced alien world with nationalists borders. And if you do, it's treated as a problem that needs to be solved by the even more advanced humans of the future who have long since dispensed with national borders.
The problem with one world government is global Venezuela. Take all the wealth from the rich and give it to the poor and you don't have an economy any more. But if you build the poor up then you have a nicer place.
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