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Old 07-05-2016, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,363,447 times
Reputation: 8828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Not surgical abortion procedures, and therein lies the problem. How many women walk into these clinics knowing that medical and facilities standards are lower than in other surgical centers? And how many know that SCOTUS has ruled that women have NO 14th Amendment Constitutional right to equal protection, but everyone else does?

MISOGYNY with a capital M. plain and simple.
Nope. Boy you do keep dodging the absolutely obvious. Different procedures have different requirements. Simple.

And if TX wished to change the requirements for a particular type of abortions they could do so subject to some demonstration it would do some good. If it simply required say all instruments be gold plated or all doctors left handed they would likely lose again in the courts. But if they made a change that would cut the problem rate a good bit it would fly fine.
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Old 07-05-2016, 03:20 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Nope. Boy you do keep dodging the absolutely obvious. Different procedures have different requirements. Simple.
Then require facilities that perform surgical abortion procedures to meet ambulatory surgery center medical and facilities standards. Simple.

To do otherwise violates WOMEN'S 14th Amendment Constitutional right to equal protection. Simple.
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Old 07-05-2016, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,363,447 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Then require facilities that perform surgical abortion procedures to meet ambulatory surgery center medical and facilities standards. Simple.

To do otherwise violates WOMEN'S 14th Amendment Constitutional right to equal protection. Simple.
Why? All evidence showed these changes made no difference to patient safety or care.

So cite the rational that proves surgical abortions require the same standards as ambulatory surgery.
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Old 07-05-2016, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,119 posts, read 41,299,979 times
Reputation: 45183
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Nope. Boy you do keep dodging the absolutely obvious. Different procedures have different requirements. Simple.

And if TX wished to change the requirements for a particular type of abortions they could do so subject to some demonstration it would do some good. If it simply required say all instruments be gold plated or all doctors left handed they would likely lose again in the courts. But if they made a change that would cut the problem rate a good bit it would fly fine.
Part of the problem Texas had was that the serious complication rate is already so low that the bad law could not make it lower.
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Old 07-06-2016, 04:25 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Why? All evidence showed these changes made no difference to patient safety or care.

So cite the rational that proves surgical abortions require the same standards as ambulatory surgery.
Roe v Wade.

SCOTUS even violated the Roe v Wade ruling in this decision:

"Of course, important state interests in the areas of health and medical standards do remain. The State has a legitimate interest in seeing to it that abortion, like any other medical procedure, is performed under circumstances that insure maximum safety for the patient. This interest obviously extends at least to the performing physician and his staff, to the facilities involved, to the availability of after-care, and to adequate provision for any complication or emergency that might arise."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/410/113#writing-USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZO

That's exactly what TX did, and SCOTUS struck that down. Perhaps we're seeing the beginnings of the reversal of Roe v Wade? SCOTUS doesn't even abide by it anymore.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:04 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Why? All evidence showed these changes made no difference to patient safety or care.

So cite the rational that proves surgical abortions require the same standards as ambulatory surgery.
Seriously? Two very recent examples, and the reason why other states have enacted laws similar to TX... Gosnell and Brigham.

Why Dr. Kermit Gosnell's Trial Should Be a Front-Page Story - The Atlantic

A Botched Operation - The New Yorker

Brigham's career of profiteering from abortions that didn't meet surgical standards and harming women has been going on for decades.

When standards are permitted to be lower, that's what you get. Unfortunately, SCOTUS, in direct violation of the Roe v Wade ruling and the 10th and 14th Amendments just ruled for exactly that. Misogynists, plain and simple.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,363,447 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Seriously? Two very recent examples, and the reason why other states have enacted laws similar to TX... Gosnell and Brigham.

Why Dr. Kermit Gosnell's Trial Should Be a Front-Page Story - The Atlantic

A Botched Operation - The New Yorker

Brigham's career of profiteering from abortions that didn't meet surgical standards and harming women has been going on for decades.

When standards are permitted to be lower, that's what you get. Unfortunately, SCOTUS, in direct violation of the Roe v Wade ruling and the 10th and 14th Amendments just ruled for exactly that. Misogynists, plain and simple.
All irrelevant. Both violated existing laws.

Gosnell testifies that any law may not protect the poor and minorities.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:19 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
All irrelevant. Both violated existing laws.
No, they did not. That's why PA passed a law similar to the TX law before TX did, based on the recommendation of Philadelphia's DEMOCRAT District Attorney. And Brigham is still allowed to run abortion clinics, to this day, in NJ and MD, even though his medical license has been suspended. Of course, those are blue states that prioritize abortion over providing women with quality health care to begin with.

That's what permitting lower standards for abortion clinics gets women: substandard medical care.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,317 posts, read 26,245,816 times
Reputation: 15654
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Roe v Wade.

SCOTUS even violated the Roe v Wade ruling in this decision:

"Of course, important state interests in the areas of health and medical standards do remain. The State has a legitimate interest in seeing to it that abortion, like any other medical procedure, is performed under circumstances that insure maximum safety for the patient. This interest obviously extends at least to the performing physician and his staff, to the facilities involved, to the availability of after-care, and to adequate provision for any complication or emergency that might arise."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/410/113#writing-USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZO

That's exactly what TX did, and SCOTUS struck that down. Perhaps we're seeing the beginnings of the reversal of Roe v Wade? SCOTUS doesn't even abide by it anymore.


You still haven't answered the basic question but what else is new. The changes made no difference in Texas, what specifically was the historic problem in Texas that required HB2. Over 100 pages and you still can't bring up specifics, don't feel bad because neither could the lawyers defending HB2.


Usually legislation is passed to address a deficiency or short coming in the system, there was none.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:28 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Regarding Brigham and that ongoing travesty of harmful acts against women:
Quote:
"Last February, Gorrell provided the disciplinary board a stock transfer certificate signed by Brigham that said the abortion clinics had been sold to Kaji.

Kaji, 80, was disciplined in the 1990s for sexually abusing patients, and in 2013 for doing an inadequate job as medical director. During a hearing, he acknowledged he had suffered a stroke that affected his vision and memory.


In May, Kaji testified during a hearing that he was not the owner of the abortion clinics, despite the ownership transfer, and that Brigham continued to "run the show."
Abortion doctor Brigham may be allowed to manage NJ clinics - philly-archives

But, hey, yeah... celebrate the SCOTUS ruling allowing these absurdities to continue. Standards? Why does women's health care need any standards, huh?
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