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Old 02-19-2008, 01:19 PM
 
539 posts, read 1,780,112 times
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Well I think the title pretty much sums it up. The 1950s saw a longing to return to conservative, "good old fashioned" American values in the aftermath of World War II - people wanted a sense of security and stability. Then came the sweeping social and political changes of the 60s and 70s.................you'd think that we would've made even more progress now, thirty years later. And yet, we haven't. This country is just as conservative as ever, just as religious as ever.....................was it supposed to happen this way? What happened? Why are we reverting backwards, and what can help put us back on the right track?


I'm serious................i try to remain moderate in politics and understand both liberal and conservative views of an issue, but it's difficult. The right-wing nuts in this country have really gone buckwild over the last 7 or 8 years or so under the Bush administration. We seemed to be making a little progress in the 1990s but damn W and Company has helped undo all of that. IMO the right-wingers in this country are no different from right-wing extremsits overseas. There's just as much hatred and intolerance from the religious fundamentalists here as the ones that are in the Middle East.


Thank God Mike Huckabee has no chance of winning the GOP nomination now, but what's scary is that he ever had half a chance in the first place. There's still a pretty substantial number of people in this country that would vote for him, and that is scary as hell. Seriously................why is the U.S. so staunchly conservative, when every other industralized nation is so liberal, particularly the EU nations? Even Canada, the closest thing in the world to the U.S. outside of the U.S., is much more liberal than we are. Why are we such an anomoly? As I said before, we seemed to be on the right track 30-40 years ago.............what happened?


_
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:30 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,631,526 times
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What do you mean by "on the right track" 30-40 years ago? Hippies being high all the time and bashing America? Spitting on our troops and treating them like absolute crap. LBJ and all his social programs that have allowed generations of people to be on welfare. LBJ ruining the US steel industry by helping the Japanese because we "owed them"? Having to pay for all these entitlements? Erroding the family and telling kids not to listen to authority? Seems like the right track to me


The US conservative? I wish the US were still conservative. We shift more left every day.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,561,344 times
Reputation: 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
What do you mean by "on the right track" 30-40 years ago? Hippies being high all the time and bashing America? Spitting on our troops and treating them like absolute crap. LBJ and all his social programs that have allowed generations of people to be on welfare. LBJ ruining the US steel industry by helping the Japanese because we "owed them"? Having to pay for all these entitlements? Erroding the family and telling kids not to listen to authority? Seems like the right track to me


The US conservative? I wish the US were still conservative. We shift more left every day.
What exactly defines "authority"? People who are older? Anybody with a badge? So what happens when law enforcement steps outside of its boundaries? Are they still supposed to get respect because they are "authorities"? That isn't logical at all.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: South Central PA
1,562 posts, read 4,025,223 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUEMINI331 View Post
Well I think the title pretty much sums it up. The 1950s saw a longing to return to conservative, "good old fashioned" American values in the aftermath of World War II - people wanted a sense of security and stability. Then came the sweeping social and political changes of the 60s and 70s.................you'd think that we would've made even more progress now, thirty years later. And yet, we haven't. This country is just as conservative as ever, just as religious as ever.....................was it supposed to happen this way? What happened? Why are we reverting backwards, and what can help put us back on the right track?


I'm serious................i try to remain moderate in politics and understand both liberal and conservative views of an issue, but it's difficult. The right-wing nuts in this country have really gone buckwild over the last 7 or 8 years or so under the Bush administration. We seemed to be making a little progress in the 1990s but damn W and Company has helped undo all of that. IMO the right-wingers in this country are no different from right-wing extremsits overseas. There's just as much hatred and intolerance from the religious fundamentalists here as the ones that are in the Middle East.


Thank God Mike Huckabee has no chance of winning the GOP nomination now, but what's scary is that he ever had half a chance in the first place. There's still a pretty substantial number of people in this country that would vote for him, and that is scary as hell. Seriously................why is the U.S. so staunchly conservative, when every other industralized nation is so liberal, particularly the EU nations? Even Canada, the closest thing in the world to the U.S. outside of the U.S., is much more liberal than we are. Why are we such an anomoly? As I said before, we seemed to be on the right track 30-40 years ago.............what happened?


_
Note: Today's republicans aren't conservative.

Conservative means: Small government, low taxes, personal freedoms. The less government the better. Only way you can have small government is not to have war, thus conservative by default is also anti-war. However Republicanism now is big government, low taxes, no freedoms, pro war. It complements liberalism moreso than conservatism

And the 60-70 was reactionism, rebelling against the war and against the man.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:38 PM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,631,526 times
Reputation: 2734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
What exactly defines "authority"? People who are older? Anybody with a badge? So what happens when law enforcement steps outside of its boundaries? Are they still supposed to get respect because they are "authorities"? That isn't logical at all.

Seems to me you have a problem with authority. Do you also think there should be no laws. Perhaps you would prefer an anarchy?
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Your mind
2,923 posts, read 4,714,179 times
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Johnny Rotten would, at least back in the liberal 70's, that is. I don't know if he would now-- he's kind of old... he should be respected because of his age. JK JK JK JK.


YouTube - Sex Pistols - Anarchy in the UK (Studio Version)
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:42 PM
 
2,356 posts, read 2,909,448 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUEMINI331 View Post
Then came the sweeping social and political changes of the 60s and 70s.................you'd think that we would've made even more progress now, thirty years later. And yet, we haven't. This country is just as conservative as ever, just as religious as ever.....................was it supposed to happen this way? What happened?
Just out of curiousity, what issues would you have liked to have made progress in?

When I look at the issues of the 60's, I identify more with the liberals. When I look at the issues of the 80's, I identify more with conservatives. I don't really see "liberal issues" as remaning consistent throughout the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and today.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:44 PM
 
539 posts, read 1,780,112 times
Reputation: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
What do you mean by "on the right track" 30-40 years ago? Hippies being high all the time and bashing America? Spitting on our troops and treating them like absolute crap. LBJ and all his social programs that have allowed generations of people to be on welfare. LBJ ruining the US steel industry by helping the Japanese because we "owed them"? Having to pay for all these entitlements? Erroding the family and telling kids not to listen to authority? Seems like the right track to me


The US conservative? I wish the US were still conservative. We shift more left every day.


I admit perhaps the actual executions of certain government ideas were not so great, but at least people had vision. JFK had vision, LBJ had vision. His main screw up was allowing Vietnam to go on. But too bad he's not remembered for signing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 into law. Too bad people look down on his Great Society program because it failed instead of remembering the vision that he had and the intentions that drove the program in the first place.


Above all it was about helping people. Not about giving people a handout. Dr. King and other affiliated civil rights protesters weren't looking for a handout, they wanted opportunity.


Who do you think was worse, LBJ for at least TRYING to help people through Great Society, or George W. Bush for watching dead bodies float in the water in New Orleans after Katrina, and allowing the city to sit and die in the years thereafter?


I still remember W's theme of "compassionate conservatism" from his 2000 campaign. I also remember his quotes of how he would be a "uniter, not a divider." HA! It'd be funny if it weren't so sad. The tragedies of this nation that have taken place over the past 7 or 8 years, everything from 9/11 (which I will admit was not Bush's fault but everything that's happened since then is his fault), to Katrina, to the Iraq war, literally make me sick to my stomach and makes me cry, it hurts me to see these things happening and even worse is the fact that our federal government has done very little, if anything, to correct any of those problems.


People seemed to be more open to different ideas and belief systems as well. Yes it was OK to be Christian but it was also OK to believe in whatever else you wanted to believe in as well, just as long as you didn't impose on anyone else or cause harm on anyone else. Now this country insists on imposing Christianity on everyone out of fear that other Americans just might believe something different, and they forget about the basic FREEDOMS that this country was founded on. They forget (or maybe they never knew) that one of our great, highly revered Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson, was NOT Christian, and that this was a big reason why he and James Madison pushed so hard for the 1st Amendment guaranteeing freedom of religion, speech, etc. in this country. Now we have a presidential administration that takes advantage of people's fear in a post-9/11 world in order to take away our freedom. Instilling fear in people and then tricking them into believing you are their only way of obtaining security and stability is the oldest trick in the book when it comes to gaining power, influence, and control over a society. And that's what we see now with Bush.



Quote:
Conservative means: Small government, low taxes, personal freedoms. The less government the better. Only way you can have small government is not to have war, thus conservative by default is also anti-war. However Republicanism now is big government, low taxes, no freedoms, pro war. It complements liberalism moreso than conservatism


Well let's remember there are different types of ideologies and political scales: political ideology, economic ideology, social ideology, etc. Economically speaking, you're right today both Republicans and Democrats favor big government. I minored in economics in undergrad and I understand the arguments for why free market societies work best without government invention. But I also know that uncontrolled, unregulated, unmonitored, unrestricted capitalism is NOT what this country wants. It's not what you want and it's not what I want. The nation would basically sell its soul to the highest bidder and before you know it, we'd all be slaves to the super-rich and the middle class would completely disappear. Government is a necessary evil in the economy. But on the other hand there are many instances when government should just butt out and let the market sort itself out. I agree with that as well.


But that's all economic ideology. In terms of social ideology, I find both Republicans and Democrats to be quite conservative. But I guess that just goes to show you how far left of center I am


_

Last edited by AQUEMINI331; 02-19-2008 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:45 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
64,751 posts, read 46,041,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
Seems to me you have a problem with authority. Do you also think there should be no laws. Perhaps you would prefer an anarchy?


There should be no authority that isn't subject to question. Only those with no answers would oppose being questioned.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:47 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,561,344 times
Reputation: 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
Seems to me you have a problem with authority. Do you also think there should be no laws. Perhaps you would prefer an anarchy?
I'm not an anarchist. Anarcho-capitalist, but that doesn't mean no government. Just that it should be limited to taking care of things that are really important. Whether or not somebody uses drugs is nobody's business if they don't bother you. Homosexual sex is nobody's business (there is a higher age of consent for that than heterosexual sex in some states). Things that are not harmful to anybody else should not be the business of law enforcement or the government. There's no reason to throw nonviolent people in jail, especially when you take the amount of tax money it takes to keep somebody in jail into consideration. It's cheaper to have a lazy pothead (I use the term lazy because not all of them are. People try to draw a connection to the two so that pothead automatically equals lazy, but that is not the case.) live on your couch than to be in jail, yet are taxes are wasted on such things.
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