Nuclear energy can cure what ails us. (gas prices, Iraq, 9/11)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by my54ford

You don't think they know that It's not every mom and pop that can afford to build a 1000Mw Wind farm or a 280Mw solar plant! Do you think people ae putting up millions of dollars because the like fresh air MONEY thats why people are beating the bush to sign up the innocents land rights for wind development..... Green Power has exterme value REGARDLESS of it's potential to make energy. If you haven't seen your power bill go up you will and I suggest that you buy a little generator for your garage bcause ther will be wind spread power outages in the USA in the 20 years..........

I guess I just expected a little more progress since the gas shortages of the '70s, it seems that when gas got cheap and available again we forgot all about gas lines and the desirability of being able to tell OPEC to kiss off.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Greatday

It almost sounds as if you think we should not be using any energy - I know that can't be what you mean - could you please clarify the above?

What I meant to say was that corporations will never sell products that will never break down, simply because that would not be profitable.
Nor will they release technology that would enable an unlimited energy supply. If people could get electricity for free it would in the end make energy companies obsolete.

[Magnulus]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by GreatdayWhat I meant to say was that corporations will never sell products that will never break down, simply because that would not be profitable.
Nor will they release technology that would enable an unlimited energy supply. If people could get electricity for free it would in the end make energy companies obsolete.

A product that never breaks down or a energy source that is free: these are both scientific impossibilities. Everything in nature decays, you can't build a machine or engine, or even an electronic circuit, that won't break down in time. Likewise it always requires some input of energy to extract energy and make it usable: even things like solar power or windmills require some kind of energy input to construct.

[texdav]

All the renewable energy we have( we are now the biggest producer of methnol) is a passing fads with what we have now. Too expensive for the massive entergy we use.Nuclear is definitely coming but first the people will have to really hurt.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Magnulus

A product that never breaks down or a energy source that is free: these are both scientific impossibilities.

I know, that is why I posted in my original post #33: Let us for the sake of argument suppose that....
My point is that free and / or clean energy will not solve the problems we have regarding humanity which is greed and / or the fear of not getting what you need.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Magnulus

A product that never breaks down or a energy source that is free: these are both scientific impossibilities. Everything in nature decays, you can't build a machine or engine, or even an electronic circuit, that won't break down in time. Likewise it always requires some input of energy to extract energy and make it usable: even things like solar power or windmills require some kind of energy input to construct.

Predictions are the sun won't break down for about 5,000,000,000 years, on a human scale that's pretty close to never breaking down

You are of course correct about energy being required to construct equipment to convert solar energy to electricity but considering the massive amount of solar energy received on earth everyday it seems like an area just begging to be exploited.

[Magnulus]

Originally Posted by burdell

Predictions are the sun won't break down for about 5,000,000,000 years, on a human scale that's pretty close to never breaking down

You are of course correct about energy being required to construct equipment to convert solar energy to electricity but considering the massive amount of solar energy received on earth everyday it seems like an area just begging to be exploited.

That's true but you still have to clean and occasionally repair solar panels. When they get PVU's out that are more efficient, maybe it will be more worthwhile for the average person to buy them.

The wind turbines also require periodic maintanence similar to a car's engine. Oiling, replacing broken parts, etc. All of those are energy inputs.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Magnulus

That's true but you still have to clean and occasionally repair solar panels. When they get PVU's out that are more efficient, maybe it will be more worthwhile for the average person to buy them.

I agree, but I know that not too long ago it was news when an airplane went 100MPH, it wasn't that long 'til we were carrying 100 people at Mach 2, maybe not in a commercially viable way but the technical progress was awesome. The computer you buy today for a few hundred dollars couldn't have been bought for a few hundred thousand dollars 25 years ago. I see no reason similar progress can't be made with other technologies.

Originally Posted by Magnulus

The wind turbines also require periodic maintanence similar to a car's engine. Oiling, replacing broken parts, etc. All of those are energy inputs.

I can easily live with the occasional oil change and spark plugs every 60K kind of maintenance schedule

[Magnulus]

Originally Posted by burdell

I can easily live with the occasional oil change and spark plugs every 60K kind of maintenance schedule

Sure you can live with it, only because you are driving a car running on fuel that gives you about 100 calories of energy for a handful of calories in energy on your part and the part of the oil/gas companies. It is a great investment. Sparkplugs are a trivial maintanence cost to tap into that kind of fuel source, especially if you live some place there isn't an easy alternative.

I'm not sure the average American is ready to live in a country dependent on wind and solar farms- energy conservation would have to be stepped up and people would have to stop laughing at the idea of banning incandescent lighting. It will mean changing the way people live, certainly. That's why nuclear energy has to have a place in the future if we have reduction in coal usage as a goal without also having to resort to stiff conservation.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Magnulus

Sure you can live with it, only because you are driving a car running on fuel that gives you about 100 calories of energy for a handful of calories in energy on your part and the part of the oil/gas companies. It is a great investment. Sparkplugs are a trivial maintanence cost to tap into that kind of fuel source, especially if you live some place there isn't an easy alternative.

Can you explain this? How does a car 'give' me anything? And it certainly can't 'give' me 100 calories of energy for the input of only a handful, not unless some physical laws have been repealed. Granted it's realatively efficient as consumer devices go but can't output more energy than is input.

Originally Posted by Magnulus

I'm not sure the average American is ready to live in a country dependent on wind and solar farms- energy conservation would have to be stepped up and people would have to stop laughing at the idea of banning incandescent lighting. It will mean changing the way people live, certainly. That's why nuclear energy has to have a place in the future if we have reduction in coal usage as a goal without also having to resort to stiff conservation.

People should keep in mind that solar energy is nuclear energy that gets here without a delivery charge.