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I kind of believe that most Americans want to get high quality health care without going broke paying for it. This is why I would give TM a zillion points for making the case so eloquently.
Pimpy - you and your "capitalists " are simply wrong. Capitalism does not serve society. It serves only the capitalists and they are only the people that have any savings. The folks, who through their own abilities, or no fault of their own, that do not have any savings, are kept out of the Divine State of Grace of the capitalist.
I am economically a Socialist and I believe society is served best through a very steeply progressive income tax on all income from all sources combined with a welfare system that prevents extreme poverty. So what if somebody does not want the continued Sysiphillian (sp?) struggling inherent in a capitalist meritocracy, but just wants to go along and get along. He costs society a lot less than supporting the zillionaire living on the investments inherited from generations of ancestors. The rich guy is the genuine “welfare cheat”. Some people will, by their very nature, continue to strive to be “better” or richer or more powerful. I am willing to let them strive their hearts out.
I’ll just work politically to spread the wealth around. Working politically is way less expensive than having me, and a lot of people like me, start a real revolution. People are beginning to feel the loss of security created by the endless war, no health care and monopolistic energy prices. When folks realize that the only direction of change for most of us is down, then the seeds of revolution can start growing in the garden of despair. Americans will not tolerate a third world life while the few prosper. Class warfare in this country is alive and well. Most of us are the victims and are getting real tired of getting robbed by rigged markets and ruthless aristocratic capitalists.[/font][/color]
People will give their freedoms away when they feel threatened, socialists take advantage of that. It stifles significant growth. Those who are leeches of society in general and suck off the system cost society much more than those whose ancestors worked to generate wealth. Many of those "rich" people donate so much to charity and have all sorts of causes they donate their time and wealth towards.
Again, why should I be forced into handing over my money for some leech down the street who will not apply himself in life...
I'll continue to work and show the truth to Americans, that the reason the direction of change is downward is due to government interference and socialism. That's what happens in socialism, there is the very wealthy and the poor; no middle class.
If those in extreme poverty are willing to work for it, I don't mind supporting them. There is plenty of work. But if all they did was shoddy work and get rewarded, I think not. Socialism is all about everyone (INCLUDING those in poverty) helping out everyone. What GregW suggests is that those in poverty do nothing and be rewarded... that isn't socialism, that is totaltarianism in reverse with those poverty benefiting from everything. Just as I don't expect to get paid for doing nothing, I don't expect people to get money just because they are poor. There are TONS and TONS of jobs out there that can benefit from a worker. Cities don't run or clean after themselves, someone needs to... and if that means you have to do it to collect on free money the government is giving out, then you better do it..
If the truth be told, there is really only a health insurance crisis in about 20% of the country due to TERRIBLE state insurance legislation and regulations. 80% of the country have lots of very affordable health insurance options. The KEY to Affordable Health Insurance is for the states who have the bad legislation including, Rhode Island, Massachusetts (yes, the state Mitt Romney is from has an AWFUL health insurance climate), New York, New Jersey, Vermont and Maine, to admit they've been wrong all along and model their legislation for the industry after successful states in other parts of the country like Texas or Virginia or Pennsylvania.
There is no need to force Universal Healthcare down the throats of most Americans who have successful health insurance markets now and low rates of uninsured in their state. Rather than do that, it would be better to simply FIX the states policies where health insurance costs are out of control. These would also be the states with the fewest carriers doing business in those states.
Elected officials in those states will HAVE TO FACE UP TO THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE an industry the way they continue to try to do and only make things WORSE for the people of those states by doing so! Duh!!! These states ought to have figured out by now that by doing the same thing over and over, you can't expect different results-- which they seem to stupidly think they can.
Having Universal healthcare in this country would DRIVE UP the costs for the 80% of the country that has affordable coverage now, and dramatically REDUCE their choices of plans and probably choices of doctors and modes of medicine.
So if you want universal healthcare and you live in one of the good states, get ready for even HIGHER costs, FEWER choices, and LOSS OF CONTROL over your care. When you think about these things, especially the loss of control, ie forced immunizations, vaccinations, government control and access to health records which would naturally follow. LOSS OF HEALTH FREEDOM, would NOT be such a great thing and not a good trade AT ALL for anyone! THINK ABOUT IT!!!!! Do you want to be thrown in jail for not submitting to drugging by the Government??? It has already begun in some states!
MOD CUT
Last edited by NewToCA; 03-03-2008 at 09:08 PM..
Reason: advocate for a candidate on the Election Forum, not here
Interesting, those states that you mentioned with bad legislation are consistently more liberal states with excessive government regulations!!!!!!! (I would know, I live in one)
But, it sounds like we should have even MORE government come to help us out on this one.
I stand by my position. Governments run natural monopolies better and cheaper than the private sector because of lower administrative costs and no profit. UHI is a natural monopoly and should be run by a federal bureaucracy. The society does not need private insurance company executive wages or share holder profits. Let us put that money into more doctors, hospitals and research.
I stand by my position. Governments run natural monopolies better and cheaper than the private sector because of lower administrative costs and no profit. UHI is a natural monopoly and should be run by a federal bureaucracy. The society does not need private insurance company executive wages or share holder profits. Let us put that money into more doctors, hospitals and research.
Lower administrative costs in government?!
You haven't lived in New Jersey, have you...
I am restricted to a handful of private policies for purchase here in the great Garden State...and they are quite expensive. I am not allowed to purchase health insurance from anywhere else in the country; but I guess that's just the government looking out for me.
I am restricted to a handful of private policies for purchase here in the great Garden State...and they are quite expensive. I am not allowed to purchase health insurance from anywhere else in the country; but I guess that's just the government looking out for me.
Thank you for weighing in. Is anyone out there listening? I don't think so. CHeck out Massachusetts and how well their little plan is working.
I keep posting this and evidently NO ONE IS LISTENING!!!! Medicare and Medicaid are UHI. There is already heathcare available for the indigent. There is already healthcare available if you are over 65. These are gov't run programs. HELLO!! Everyone out there happy w/ their Medicare and Medicaid? I hope so! Cause take a good look - that is what you are gonna get if you get universal coverage.
Oh - and btw - how are Medicaid and Medicare paid for? Wanna check out their budgets and how those costs are subsidized?
Anyone who cannot add up the figures and see YOUR TAXES are gonna go up . . . I just don't know what to say! I guess the Universal Healthcare Fairy is gonna somehow magically endow the gov't w/ Fun Money to cover your next MRI. (Oh wait. Maybe you just won't GET that MRI, cause your healthcare is gonna be RATIONED).
See how you like that. The only option you will have to getting that MRI will be to pay for it out of pocket. Hmmmm. Guess the politicians forgot to tell you that part.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State.
They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.
Frédéric Bastiat
The welfare state is the oldest con game in the world.
First you take people's money away quietly, and then
you give some of it back to them flamboyantly.
Thomas Sowell
Socialists eventually run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government
from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
Everyone wants to live at the expense of the State.
They forget that the State lives at the expense of everyone.
Frédéric Bastiat
The welfare state is the oldest con game in the world.
First you take people's money away quietly, and then
you give some of it back to them flamboyantly.
Thomas Sowell
Socialists eventually run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher
Awesome quotations!
It saddens me to read so many posts on this board promoting socialism in one way or another. I guess these days there are lots of people that just don't want to work hard for the things they want and need; they would rather the government redistribute to them the products of other people's hard work.
Not really the principles on which this country was founded, but I guess empty promises from socialists like Hillary and Barack have people salivating at the idea of letting the government be the nanny that takes care of their every need. Sad, really.
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