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People who are black perform it, but it is not African-American music, which is my point. Dionne Warwick and Lou Rawls--African-Americans--performed mainstream popular music, which did not make what they did "African-American" music.
What exactly would qualify as African-American music?
Honestly, I think beating children is a common experience of all sorts of people, no matter their socio-economic level.
I know people who were not raised poor who were routinely physically disciplined.
I grew up poor and was never beaten in excess (I got 3 spankings that I remember, my dad would swat our buts 2-5 times with an open hand, no belts, extension cords, etc.). As mentioned earlier, I grew up around a lot of lower to working class people of various backgrounds. The white kids got beaten and yelled at more than blacks (the Latino kids got beat a lot too). Seems a lot of white women yell at their kids. And FWIW even my white female friends feel that this is an issue of theirs they picked up from their own mothers so they are trying to change that behavior. None of the women in my family ever yelled at kids. We got a "look" and we knew better. I am the same with my kids. Yelling at kids is silly and unproductive. My family has never been one who was big on physical discipline, usually it is only in the last resort.
But I do think that too many black people themselves feel it is a part of "the black experience." Also that they think it will keep their kids out of jail. Many of the black people I grew up with are constantly posting stuff on social media about how parents need to whup their kids more. Even though a lot of the white and Latino people I know grew up being physically disciplined and/or yelled at, they are supporters of "gentle parenting" much moreso than the black people. So I do think all sorts of people have done and still do physically discipline their children, but I believe that blacks too often hold on to the idea that it is the "best way" to deal with disciplinary issues instead of evolving on the subject like other ethnic groups have done.
On the "keep the kids out of jail thing" I always tell them that nearly every black man in jail has been physically punished and/or abused in some way and that to keep your kids out of jail you should love and respect them as individuals.
Paraphrasing a Sociology professor of mine: not all corporal punishment is abuse, but most abusers do support corporal punishment.
We're speaking in a US context. I know there are differences between Caribbean and African American blacks.
Lots of African American music teachers are out there teaching African American children. I think you're just pessimists.
Are they teaching them to sing "We Shall Overcome?" Do they know Mary Bethune or Phyllis Wheatley? Can they tap?
Just because a person is a black American does not mean what he does is "African-American."
This gets into the silly debates over whether an immigrant from Africa (including white South Africans) aren't actually "African-American."
For better or worse, "African-American" designates the specific heritage and culture of a people that had been kidnapped from Africa and subjected to slavery and racial subjugation in the United States of America.
Part of that cultural heritage would be transmitting its history, its songs, its heroes, its dances, and its moral values from one generation to the next.
We're speaking in a US context. I know there are differences between Caribbean and African American blacks.
Lots of African American music teachers are out there teaching African American children. I think you're just pessimists.
On the bold, I honestly don't think there are that many. I have children and both take music lessons and it has been hard to find a black music instructor. Both of them take lessons from white instructors.
My daughter did initially have a black instructor but she was not very good with children. My daughter will take advantage of what I consider a "weak" authority figure. She is not combattive or rude, but she is very direct (like her mom ) and is a great conversationalist and will steer a situation/conversation away from what it is supposed to be about - like playing violin - to something she would rather discuss or do. It is pretty funny to watch her work her magic, but the black teacher was "played" too much by my daughter and would not shut the child down in a respectful way when the child tried to steer the conversation/situation away from music. I wasn't going to pay her to interact with my daughter and discuss whatever childish thing my girl wanted to discuss (like MLP or Pokemon or something lol). So I got a white teacher who is older and doesn't take all that stuff from kids.
Most of the younger black teachers I've come across are too much like the one I had for my daughter. They also don't have much experience with children. When I was a kid, we had a specific set of music instructors, all were taught by the woman who taught my grandmother. My grandmother, herself, gave piano lessons when I was a girl. They knew how to speak to children and not let them take over a lesson, while at the same time being respectful to the child.
Will also note that the black instructor for my daughter did not really impart any sort of black music tradition on her, like have her take one of her 3 recitals per year to do a song that is culturally relevant in the black American music canon. When I was a kid, we ALWAYS had to do something related to being black during at least one recital. I started off on trumpet so usually played a blues or jazz song and was encouraged to improvise a second "set" after playing the original song.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relaxx
Dione Warwick and Lou Rawls are past their prime. The music of Dione Warwick and Lou Rawls is not very popular today because music evolves. Maybe not Dione Warwick but Lou Rawls did perform what can be called "African American" music. Popular music during those days are not popular today. Plenty of African Americans are at the forefront are at the forefront of today's popular music. You're just not familiar with it.
What popular music are black Americans creating today? I am younger than Ralph and know a lot of popular black musicians today and don't see much innovation at all. But will note that I don't listen to everyone so may have missed something.
On the bold, I honestly don't think there are that many. I have children and both take music lessons and it has been hard to find a black music instructor. Both of them take lessons from white instructors.
My daughter did initially have a black instructor but she was not very good with children. My daughter will take advantage of what I consider a "weak" authority figure. She is not combattive or rude, but she is very direct (like her mom ) and is a great conversationalist and will steer a situation/conversation away from what it is supposed to be about - like playing violin - to something she would rather discuss or do. It is pretty funny to watch her work her magic, but the black teacher was "played" too much by my daughter and would not shut the child down in a respectful way when the child tried to steer the conversation/situation away from music. I wasn't going to pay her to interact with my daughter and discuss whatever childish thing my girl wanted to discuss (like MLP or Pokemon or something lol). So I got a white teacher who is older and doesn't take all that stuff from kids.
Most of the younger black teachers I've come across are too much like the one I had for my daughter. They also don't have much experience with children. When I was a kid, we had a specific set of music instructors, all were taught by the woman who taught my grandmother. My grandmother, herself, gave piano lessons when I was a girl. They knew how to speak to children and not let them take over a lesson, while at the same time being respectful to the child.
Will also note that the black instructor for my daughter did not really impart any sort of black music tradition on her, like have her take one of her 3 recitals per year to do a song that is culturally relevant in the black American music canon. When I was a kid, we ALWAYS had to do something related to being black during at least one recital. I started off on trumpet so usually played a blues or jazz song and was encouraged to improvise a second "set" after playing the original song.
What popular music are black Americans creating today? I am younger than Ralph and know a lot of popular black musicians today and don't see much innovation at all. But will note that I don't listen to everyone so may have missed something.
There is plenty, the problem is that it is no longer seen as uniquely African American. I remember a few years ago on one of the minor music award shows the best R&B nominations where Robin Thicke, Justin Timberlake and what was joked as a token Black nominee
Will also note that the black instructor for my daughter did not really impart any sort of black music tradition on her, like have her take one of her 3 recitals per year to do a song that is culturally relevant in the black American music canon. When I was a kid, we ALWAYS had to do something related to being black during at least one recital. I started off on trumpet so usually played a blues or jazz song and was encouraged to improvise a second "set" after playing the original song.
There is plenty, the problem is that it is no longer seen as uniquely African American. I remember a few years ago on one of the minor music award shows the best R&B nominations where Robin Thicke, Justin Timberlake and what was joked as a token Black nominee
They aren't innovating, they're just sampling.
Are Millennials as parents going to teach their children, "Lift Every Voice and Sing?"--and the reason why African-Americans would sing it? Are they going to teach their children our cultural heroes and stories?
This is something I didn't really understand myself until I went to other places and saw "cultural transmission" done right.
But I'm ambivalent about whether it should even be done by the Millennial generation. As I said before...isn't this what we always fought for? Not to be treated as separate?
Are Millennials as parents going to teach their children, "Lift Every Voice and Sing?"--and the reason why African-Americans would sing it? Are they going to teach their children our cultural heroes and stories?
This is something I didn't really understand myself until I went to other places and saw "cultural transmission" done right.
But I'm ambivalent about whether it should even be done by the Millennial generation. As I said before...isn't this what we always fought for? Not to be treated as separate?
The bold is very concerning to me as well. My older nephews did not know the words to Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing or the meaning behind the song. We went over this in kindergarten/1st grade when I was a kid and it was spoken about and expanded upon through high school.
I went to the HBCU James Weldon Johnson, who wrote the song, attended, so got a more in depth knowledge and appreciation for that song, his work, and his life. He was an amazing person. I wish they would have taught me more about him when we learned about the song when I was a girl.
There is plenty, the problem is that it is no longer seen as uniquely African American. I remember a few years ago on one of the minor music award shows the best R&B nominations where Robin Thicke, Justin Timberlake and what was joked as a token Black nominee
My issue is that we, as a demographic have always been creative and unique. We should continue that tradition musically.
In the past there were some "token whites" like Teena Marie who got well known in R&B but R&B in particular IMO is being taken over by too many whites. And sorry, but many of the newer artist just are not all that innovative to me either.
Will note though, that there are some GREAT not as popular black neo-soul and R&B artist. They don't get into the mainstream and I do feel that R&B is an area that will still see some creative innovation by black performers in the future. I remember the singer Tyrese lamenting about the fact that his songs/LP a couple years ago was not being played on the white stations like these white performers are played on black/urban radio stations and people were upset about that. I don't usually agree with him, but I agree in regards to a lot of conversation I read about his comments with the popularity of white R&B singers like Adele over black R&B singers like Jasmine Sullivan for instance. Even though Tyrese's personality in the media gets on my nerves, he is a very good singer and his songs get way less play than Justin Timberlake or Robin Thicke who stole Marvin Gaye's work.
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) and is a great conversationalist and will steer a situation/conversation away from what it is supposed to be about - like playing violin - to something she would rather discuss or do. It is pretty funny to watch her work her magic, but the black teacher was "played" too much by my daughter and would not shut the child down in a respectful way when the child tried to steer the conversation/situation away from music. I wasn't going to pay her to interact with my daughter and discuss whatever childish thing my girl wanted to discuss (like MLP or Pokemon or something lol). So I got a white teacher who is older and doesn't take all that stuff from kids. 