Another racial issues discussion-looking for input *especially* from fellow blacks. (Rockefeller, administration)
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Those videos you show do not mirror the majority of experiences for Blacks. Most Blacks in the early 20th century were among the working poor or worse. I wouldn't say so much stronger as it was Blacks were more likely to being working around one another. Black teachers were in Black schools often because they had no choices. There are still Black owned businesses. Today, however, there are more facets to those businesses, more fields. One thing about Black businesses being owned is this. There was a very limited clientele. Blacks often patronized those businesses because they did not have that much of a choice. You patronized whoever would serve you. And with signs like "Whites Only" or "No Blacks Allowed", Blacks had little choice.
And something else. Blacks have long led the nation in out of wedlock births and homes headed by women. This goes back to the 1940s, and started getting worse in the 1950s. White divorce rates dropped in the 50s, but they rose for Blacks.
Truth is, today, there are more Blacks working in professional jobs, Blacks with university degrees, living in places Blacks once didn't live before, more Blacks owning homes, than ever before. Blacks have the freedom to go wherever they want, live where they want, basically, more choices than ever before.
And something else. What does integration have to do with having children in wedlock and creating strong families?
The question is this though. WHY did we have such a high rate of out of wedlock births, even then?
Yes, my (black and Creole) family came to California from Louisiana, East Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and the Carolinas in the 40s and 50s. And they created very solid communities in Los Angeles and San Francisco that thrived into the 70s-80s through the 90s and many continue to thrive such as Ladera Hts, Baldwin Hills, Leimert Park, Windsor Hills, etc.
I actually do appreciate your commentary in this discussion. Are you originally from Louisiana or from Cali? Do you think that black communities in other regions such as the PNWvor the Northeast are better off than their southern counterparts?
Those videos you show do not mirror the majority of experiences for Blacks. Most Blacks in the early 20th century were among the working poor or worse. I wouldn't say so much stronger as it was Blacks were more likely to being working around one another. Black teachers were in Black schools often because they had no choices. There are still Black owned businesses. Today, however, there are more facets to those businesses, more fields. One thing about Black businesses being owned is this. There was a very limited clientele. Blacks often patronized those businesses because they did not have that much of a choice. You patronized whoever would serve you. And with signs like "Whites Only" or "No Blacks Allowed", Blacks had little choice.
And something else. Blacks have long led the nation in out of wedlock births and homes headed by women. This goes back to the 1940s, and started getting worse in the 1950s. White divorce rates dropped in the 50s, but they rose for Blacks.
Truth is, today, there are more Blacks working in professional jobs, Blacks with university degrees, living in places Blacks once didn't live before, more Blacks owning homes, than ever before. Blacks have the freedom to go wherever they want, live where they want, basically, more choices than ever before.
And something else. What does integration have to do with having children in wedlock and creating strong families?
Green Mariner, I hope that you are able to understand that the black experience is very diverse.....even during the pre CRM/Jim Crow era. My perspective is different because I come from a LONG line of black business owners, educators and First Ones. Many of my family members were college educated as early as the late 1890s and they were able to THRIVE with mostly black only patronage although they had white patronage as well in many cases in the South.
And the overall tone that I get from your post is that black patronage was somehow "limited" or "less than". You would NEVER hear Asian owned or Latino owned businesses today that cater to mostly Asians or mostly Latinos think of their patronage as "limited".
Again, its the mentality that we aren't doing well unless we are interacting with whites that has hurt the black community.
And to your point about out of wedlock births and households headed by women...those are trends that began from slavery. The number of black males heading households increasing in the years following the Emancipation yet DECREASED after the CRM.
Looking at the videos posted by callipoppy and how blacks dressed makes me think about when I went to my 10 year high school reunion in 2015. I graduated from a predominantly white school. Most of the guys were in polos and jeans. The ladies had on evening cocktail dresses. I have on my Sundays best. I felt overdressed! I find for certain occasions we as blacks tend to overdress for. We pull out the sunday clothes for weddings, graduations, and the like while our white counterparts don't make such a huge deal about this. I was talking with mom about this, she tells me it goes back to Saturday (if you were going into town to pay bills) or Sunday (if you were going to church)being the one day we could put on something nice and feel good about about ourselves. What do you think?
Last edited by pandorafan5687; 03-19-2017 at 12:28 PM..
Green Mariner, I hope that you are able to understand that the black experience is very diverse.....even during the pre CRM/Jim Crow era. My perspective is different because I come from a LONG line of black business owners, educators and First Ones. Many of my family members were college educated as early as the late 1890s and they were able to THRIVE with mostly black only patronage although they had white patronage as well in many cases in the South.
And the overall tone that I get from your post is that black patronage was somehow "limited" or "less than". You would NEVER hear Asian owned or Latino owned businesses today that cater to mostly Asians or mostly Latinos think of their patronage as "limited". Perhaps they live in more diverse cities or metropolitans. In a large city you are going to have Chinatowns (which do ultimately attract visitors from all communities for the food and herbs), little Italies, Little Mexicos, etc. OTOH, if you live in a not so diverse area or a smaller area, you are probably going to have to appeal to more than just your segment.
Again, its the mentality that we aren't doing well unless we are interacting with whites that has hurt the black community.
And to your point about out of wedlock births and households headed by women...those are trends that began from slavery. The number of black males heading households increasing in the years following the Emancipation yet DECREASED after the CRM.
I kind of have a mixed perspective on this. I reject the idea that we as blacks should write white people off, it's never a bad idea to expand your racial circle even if you are careful in doing so. At the same time, now that Jim Crow is over, I do feel that we as blacks should be building up our communities and diversifying the types of businesses that we get involved in.
I actually do appreciate your commentary in this discussion. Are you originally from Louisiana or from Cali? Do you think that black communities in other regions such as the PNWvor the Northeast are better off than their southern counterparts?
I am from Los Angeles.
One of the reasons that I tell my family's story is because I think that many of the younger black Americans think that black life was completely destitute for ALL of us pre-CRM and that simply was not true.
Some of my family migrated out of the South and went in ALL directions: west coast, Chicago, Detroit, DC, NYC but mostly to the Los Angeles (on both my mother's and father's side)
These family members who landed in Los Angeles opened stores, restaurants, dental practices, owned a gas station, taught in colleges and universities, worked in the aerospace industries, opened psychiatry practices, worked in the film industry, built law practice, had insurance brokerages and on and on and on. But these are people who started building businesses and owned land in the South. They were more limited but had the drive nonetheless.
I have to say to myself if my great grandfather could accumulate and maintain 200+ acres of land in Jim Crow, lynch happy Mississippi then none of us have any excuses
The question is this though. WHY did we have such a high rate of out of wedlock births, even then?
Bad choices lead to that. This is why I am an advocate for abstinence. It is better to have one's children in wedlock. It is better to wait until one is married to have children. Or if abstinence isn't considered an option, use protection.
I kind of have a mixed perspective on this. I reject the idea that we as blacks should write white people off, it's never a bad idea to expand your racial circle even if you are careful in doing so. At the same time, now that Jim Crow is over, I do feel that we as blacks should be building up our communities and diversifying the types of businesses that we get involved in.
I never said that we should write off whites but there is a difference between believing that we CAN NOT be successful without them vs simply casting a wider patronage net.
It is now more difficult to focus predominantly on servicing the black community in the West because the majority of our communities out here are now more sparsely populated. But there should be more black owned businesses to service the more densely populated black communities in the Midwest and East Coast.
I am not in disagreement with any of the above but my point is that "we" did not take the gains of the CRM to make what we already had BETTER. During segregation we had to have our own businesses to service our communities; we had to recycle black dollars but once the opportunity came to patronize any business establishment "we" decided that the white man's ice was colder and black wealth drained from our communities.
To be fair black labor produced a large chunk of the communities that whites were living in, it's only fair that we'd have access to them. That said, I would absolutely like to see more of a variety of black owned business in our communities.
I am not in disagreement with any of the above but my point is that "we" did not take the gains of the CRM to make what we already had BETTER. During segregation we had to have our own businesses to service our communities; we had to recycle black dollars but once the opportunity came to patronize any business establishment "we" decided that the white man's ice was colder and black wealth drained from our communities.
Wait, which gains where?
There was not a sudden shift in 1964 from "cruelly oppressed" to suddenly "all better now!"
Segregation was nearly serious and significant as ever well into the 80s. Real gains didn't begin until the latter 80s.
Someone mentioned the Asian example. Asians took three generations after severe oppression ended to gain control of their neighborhoods--it was the third generation that had gone out into white society and acquired sufficient social and economic capital to buy Chinatown.
If we follow the Asian example, it's right about time now for the third generation after the Civil Rights Act--the black Millennials-- to go back and buy those traditional communities.
But as I said before, there is always more than one thing happening. You can't ignore the general state of the economy, which is knocking the economic stuffing out of all Millennials. You can't ignore the continuing War on Drugs, which is stripping the ability to work and vote from a huge percentage of young black men every generation that it goes on. You can't ignore the white racists of the Boomer Generation who are rising up for one last death lunge.
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