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Very interesting thread. What some of you all may find strange is ive actually become more of a moderate as I became deeper in my faith. I was as right winged as they came 7-10 years ago. I think a mixed economy is actually the right way to go. It keeps corporations and government in check.
So someone posted that would today's evangelicals be more willing to associate with Trump or mother Theresa...the answer would be Trump. I live in the south-- where as someone else mentioned-- the there things that matter most are 1) Gay marriage 2) Guns and 3) abortion
I'm very split on gay marriage. I don't think Christians should dictate to people whether they should get married based on their belief system. I wouldn't marry a male, but I can't say two gay guys can't get married based on what I believe to be right.
I'm not anti guns but there is absolutely a problem in our country. I'm all for extensive background checks, and the elimination of loop holes. I also think there should be mandatory learning programs for first time buyers. I also think illegals, and people who have mental disorders should not be allowed to arm.
Abortion is a difficult question. Im pro life for myself and family. I don't want abortions being done in back alleys with coat hangers like they were in the 50's (so says my uncle).
I'm all for helping people in need and think there should be some regulation on wages so that it elimanates the greed in the country.
In the end I think today's evangelicals miss what is most important and that is helping the poor and being a good example to others without shoving our beliefs down others throats.
Very interesting thread. What some of you all may find strange is ive actually become more of a moderate as I became deeper in my faith. I was as right winged as they came 7-10 years ago. I think a mixed economy is actually the right way to go. It keeps corporations and government in check.
So someone posted that would today's evangelicals be more willing to associate with Trump or mother Theresa...the answer would be Trump. I live in the south-- where as someone else mentioned-- the there things that matter most are 1) Gay marriage 2) Guns and 3) abortion
I'm very split on gay marriage. I don't think Christians should dictate to people whether they should get married based on their belief system. I wouldn't marry a male, but I can't say two gay guys can't get married based on what I believe to be right.
I'm not anti guns but there is absolutely a problem in our country. I'm all for extensive background checks, and the elimination of loop holes. I also think there should be mandatory learning programs for first time buyers. I also think illegals, and people who have mental disorders should not be allowed to arm.
Abortion is a difficult question. Im pro life for myself and family. I don't want abortions being done in back alleys with coat hangers like they were in the 50's (so says my uncle).
I'm all for helping people in need and think there should be some regulation on wages so that it elimanates the greed in the country.
In the end I think today's evangelicals miss what is most important and that is helping the poor and being a good example to others without shoving our beliefs down others throats.
What Christian conservatives want and what they see in trump is continued societal and political domination over the groups of Americans they feel bigoted towards.
Let's take Christian conservative bakers baking a wedding cake for a gay couple example.
Now the stakes for the gay couple in this are obvious allowing open discrimination against them makes no sense and would be a step back.
Now supposedly Christian conservative bakers have their religious freedom on the line, but of course this is utter bs.
If you work no one can make you do anything, so getting out of baking a cake could be as simple as saying no I don't feel like baking that cake no other explanations needed, or I don't want to bake this cake cause I don't have the time, or I don't want to bake that type of cake, or I don't have the staffing to get to that cake,etc.
The excuses to get out of baking that cake are utterly endless. So the idea that they'll be forced to bake a cake for a gay couple is again utter bs.
Instead what christian conservatives want is for that baker and themselves to be able say to that gay couple im not going to treat you like I do all my other customers, I'm going to openly discriminate against you and tell you I'm not baking this cake because you are gay, and the government sides with giving me the power to tell you that I will discriminate against you in this manner.
In other words, if the goal was getting out of baking a cake then Christian conservatives would focus on giving such bakers a script that doesn't involve saying im not baking this cake because you are gay this is what they'd do if the goal was protecting religious freedom of the bakers.
Instead it's about continued domination of gay couples and being empowered by the state to carry it out.
This dynamic explains Christian conservative oppstion to allowing women who are not them to get abortions. It is a domination thing.
Trump's whole campaign was about dominating and bullying and threats and intimidation. Christian conservatives love those traits and hopes Trump empowers them to carry that out against certain groups of Americans.
Very interesting thread. What some of you all may find strange is ive actually become more of a moderate as I became deeper in my faith. I was as right winged as they came 7-10 years ago. I think a mixed economy is actually the right way to go. It keeps corporations and government in check.
So someone posted that would today's evangelicals be more willing to associate with Trump or mother Theresa...the answer would be Trump. I live in the south-- where as someone else mentioned-- the there things that matter most are 1) Gay marriage 2) Guns and 3) abortion
I'm very split on gay marriage. I don't think Christians should dictate to people whether they should get married based on their belief system. I wouldn't marry a male, but I can't say two gay guys can't get married based on what I believe to be right.
I'm not anti guns but there is absolutely a problem in our country. I'm all for extensive background checks, and the elimination of loop holes. I also think there should be mandatory learning programs for first time buyers. I also think illegals, and people who have mental disorders should not be allowed to arm.
Abortion is a difficult question. Im pro life for myself and family. I don't want abortions being done in back alleys with coat hangers like they were in the 50's (so says my uncle).
I'm all for helping people in need and think there should be some regulation on wages so that it elimanates the greed in the country.
In the end I think today's evangelicals miss what is most important and that is helping the poor and being a good example to others without shoving our beliefs down others throats.
@ Bold:
So, Evangelical Protestants would vote for the more morally conservative of the two?
Bearing in mind I pray occasionally to Mother Teresa and credit her personally for a small miracle in my life. I also pray to other female saints like St. Bernadette.
In terms of humility and self deprecation nearly all lay conservatives today be they Catholic or not utterly have the saints construed incorrectly. Saints like Mother Teresa and St. Bernadette. They look like cocky little Lucifers, proud in their glory, and like Donald Trump far more than they do those saints.
But in terms of moral conservative views and lifestyle the lay liberals be they Catholic or not look more like little Lucifers, and Donald Trump far more than they do those saints.
Mother Teresa stated out her own mouth that the poorest nations of all are those that have legalized abortion. Like most religious sisters of her era of Catholicism she lived an incredibly disciplined and hard life. Aside from being afflicted with the mystical interior school of the soul labeled "The Dark Night of the Soul" by St. John of the Cross, her choice of material living was Spartan and she gave up having a husband or children or grandchildren or the "American Dream." Intellectually and morally she bound herself to the teachings of the Church.
St. Bernadette did not have "The Dark Night of the Soul," but she had an incredibly difficult life from beginning to end. Sickly, poor, uneducated as a child. Then as a vowed nun her Mother Superior made sure her fame did not go to her head. She had a tough life as a nun. Again, no "American Dream." I believe she was assigned to clean the bathrooms, being "good for nothing" as the more educated religious viewed her and she seemed to view herself, while other learned nuns were given posts teaching children or something like that.
Neither woman would think--not seriously at least--of defying the moral teachings of Holy Mother Church. Both undoubtedly would have openly denounced gay marriage and abortion. Guns would have been a lesser issue given there is no universal denunciation of firearms in the teachings of the Church and Catholicism is not a pacifist religion, albeit some Catholics volunterarily become pacifists.
Most American Catholics, be they Democrats or Republicans, are morally in character closer to Donald Trump than they are to Mother Teresa. For one thing, the American of today invariably sees everything through the lenses of pride (not humility) and materialism. The secular critics of Mother Teresa often attacked her about her materialistic failures among the poor of Calcutta. Aside from the fact the hospitals and society of Calcutta had already abandoned these "least of Christ" materially, the "charism" of the religious order she founded was not predicated principally on materialism (like a Catholic hospital is), but rather its "charism" was that of showing the abandoned and rejected of society they are loved. It was a non-material charism. Ergo, when asked what was the best thing an American can do when coming across a homeless person in the USA, Mother Teresa responded by saying to show them they are loved. Basically to look them in the eye and acknowledge they exist.
You can look the word "charism" up on Wikipedia. The "charism" of the Catholic Jesuit religious order, for example, is that of education. Ergo, Jesuit Priests have advanced degrees, sometimes multiple advanced degrees, and often they are involved in teaching young minds.
I won't argue your opinion regarding manufacturing jobs. I'm just not going to agree with you that most Trump voters voted for him because of White Racial superiority. That's the kind of propaganda that lost the dems the election. People who lost those manufacturing jobs are allowed to maintain hope that their lives will improve and vote accordingly whether it's realistic or not.
The cor issue is that you have to answer if only whites felt the losing of Jobs, when in fact Blacks and latinos also felt that shortage of Manufacturing Jobs. And while some of them voted one way the others vted the other way. And that has to be more with racial issues tan with working class blue collar issues.
It takes a liberal from Great Britain to explain why Hillary lost, but American liberals still don't get it. They still live in a fantasy.
If you haven't seen this, warning there is foul language
And Fact is that Hillary didn't lose, she won by more than 2 million votes. it was the White supremacists states where she lost and the fake Electoral college which denies citizens their right to chose their president.
What Christian conservatives want and what they see in trump is continued societal and political domination over the groups of Americans they feel bigoted towards.
Let's take Christian conservative bakers baking a wedding cake for a gay couple example.
Now the stakes for the gay couple in this are obvious allowing open discrimination against them makes no sense and would be a step back.
Now supposedly Christian conservative bakers have their religious freedom on the line, but of course this is utter bs.
If you work no one can make you do anything, so getting out of baking a cake could be as simple as saying no I don't feel like baking that cake no other explanations needed, or I don't want to bake this cake cause I don't have the time, or I don't want to bake that type of cake, or I don't have the staffing to get to that cake,etc.
The excuses to get out of baking that cake are utterly endless. So the idea that they'll be forced to bake a cake for a gay couple is again utter bs.
Instead what christian conservatives want is for that baker and themselves to be able say to that gay couple im not going to treat you like I do all my other customers, I'm going to openly discriminate against you and tell you I'm not baking this cake because you are gay, and the government sides with giving me the power to tell you that I will discriminate against you in this manner.
In other words, if the goal was getting out of baking a cake then Christian conservatives would focus on giving such bakers a script that doesn't involve saying im not baking this cake because you are gay this is what they'd do if the goal was protecting religious freedom of the bakers.
Instead it's about continued domination of gay couples and being empowered by the state to carry it out.
This dynamic explains Christian conservative oppstion to allowing women who are not them to get abortions. It is a domination thing.
Trump's whole campaign was about dominating and bullying and threats and intimidation. Christian conservatives love those traits and hopes Trump empowers them to carry that out against certain groups of Americans.
Very well stated...as is clearly evidenced on many City-Data threads.
What Christian conservatives want and what they see in trump is continued societal and political domination over the groups of Americans they feel bigoted towards.
Let's take Christian conservative bakers baking a wedding cake for a gay couple example.
Now the stakes for the gay couple in this are obvious allowing open discrimination against them makes no sense and would be a step back.
Now supposedly Christian conservative bakers have their religious freedom on the line, but of course this is utter bs.
If you work no one can make you do anything, so getting out of baking a cake could be as simple as saying no I don't feel like baking that cake no other explanations needed, or I don't want to bake this cake cause I don't have the time, or I don't want to bake that type of cake, or I don't have the staffing to get to that cake,etc.
The excuses to get out of baking that cake are utterly endless. So the idea that they'll be forced to bake a cake for a gay couple is again utter bs.
Instead what christian conservatives want is for that baker and themselves to be able say to that gay couple im not going to treat you like I do all my other customers, I'm going to openly discriminate against you and tell you I'm not baking this cake because you are gay, and the government sides with giving me the power to tell you that I will discriminate against you in this manner.
In other words, if the goal was getting out of baking a cake then Christian conservatives would focus on giving such bakers a script that doesn't involve saying im not baking this cake because you are gay this is what they'd do if the goal was protecting religious freedom of the bakers.
Instead it's about continued domination of gay couples and being empowered by the state to carry it out.
This dynamic explains Christian conservative oppstion to allowing women who are not them to get abortions. It is a domination thing.
Trump's whole campaign was about dominating and bullying and threats and intimidation. Christian conservatives love those traits and hopes Trump empowers them to carry that out against certain groups of Americans.
abortion
gay marriage
abortion
gay marriage
abortion
gay marriage
Please don't paint all Christians who voted Trump with a broad brush.
I, for one, support gay marriage; I, for one, believe abortion should always be legal.
I'd be OK with the government calling all marriages 'civil unions' for legal/tax purposes. That would be fair and impartial.
Very interesting thread. What some of you all may find strange is ive actually become more of a moderate as I became deeper in my faith. I was as right winged as they came 7-10 years ago. I think a mixed economy is actually the right way to go. It keeps corporations and government in check.
So someone posted that would today's evangelicals be more willing to associate with Trump or mother Theresa...the answer would be Trump. I live in the south-- where as someone else mentioned-- the there things that matter most are 1) Gay marriage 2) Guns and 3) abortion
I'm very split on gay marriage. I don't think Christians should dictate to people whether they should get married based on their belief system. I wouldn't marry a male, but I can't say two gay guys can't get married based on what I believe to be right.
I'm not anti guns but there is absolutely a problem in our country. I'm all for extensive background checks, and the elimination of loop holes. I also think there should be mandatory learning programs for first time buyers. I also think illegals, and people who have mental disorders should not be allowed to arm.
Abortion is a difficult question. Im pro life for myself and family. I don't want abortions being done in back alleys with coat hangers like they were in the 50's (so says my uncle).
I'm all for helping people in need and think there should be some regulation on wages so that it elimanates the greed in the country.
In the end I think today's evangelicals miss what is most important and that is helping the poor and being a good example to others without shoving our beliefs down others throats.
I'm not sure what part of the South you are in, but over here, we are more concerned with:
1. Jobs
2. Government spending
3. Government overreach
4. Immigration
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