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Old 12-26-2016, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,207,531 times
Reputation: 4590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
That would be awesome! One party rule with a monarchy! No opposition, no checks, no balances! What a waste that Revolutionary War was, we have an oligarchy now!
Do you even know why we had a revolution? And was it even a revolution?

The same people who ran America before the Revolution, ran America after the revolution. And the founding-fathers were almost-all very wealthy men. George Washington would basically be a modern billionaire(he was richer than Mitt Romney).

Do you think men like George Washington, or Alexander Hamilton, were fighting so that you could be free? Were they not free? What was George Washington actually fighting for?


If the founders loved democracy and freedom so much, then why did they give only white men who owned property a right to vote(IE men like themselves)?

If these men loved freedom, then why did George Washington himself march an Army into Pennsylvania to put down the Whiskey rebellion?


Don't we already have a kind of oligarchy? Haven't all governments, throughout all of world history, been oligarchies?

What problems does democracy solve? If it is such a great system, then why did it almost never existed in world history? And why, for all practical purposes, does it still not exist(money rules)?
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Old 12-26-2016, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,207,531 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashrendar4454 View Post
They are already at their weakest point since the 1920s and they have a unfavorable map in 2018. With them putting Pelosi back, saying "nothing needs to change, blaming everything on Russia, unable to choose whether they want limousine liberals like Pelosi, Reid, or Clinton or far left lunatics like Elizabeth Warren and Keith Ellison and ignoring or shaming moderate, middle of the road democrats, and continuing to double down on identity politics and supporting radical movements like Black Lives Matter, Maybe this party can die off. It will be nothing but a good thing.

All governments are run by a coalition. Whether that coalition is formed from multiple external parties, or if it is formed within a single visible party, the outcome is exactly the same.


The democratic party is made up a coalition of left-of-center moderates, social-democrats, socialists, and communists, and a variety of other "special-interests" who vote based on "wedge-issues"(such as same-sex marriage).

The goal of both the Democratic party, as well as the Republican party, is to win 51% of the vote. And both parties will shift their political platform to accommodate any changes in the electorate.


The Democratic party is not going to die. Rather, they will just reinvent themselves. Just like Trump did with the Republican party.

And honestly, unless immigration policies change drastically, then over the long-term, the democrats will get stronger anyway.


The truth is, Trump won, because he was able to convince blue-dog democrats(IE blue-collar workers), to vote for him. And unless he is able to deliver what he promised, or unless he is able to do something about the millions of immigrants who will likely vote against him in future elections, the pendulum will swing back to the left.


In my view, Trump isn't going to be able to deliver on almost anything he ran on. The money in this country wants to continue to "globalize" the economy. The American worker is going to continue to be sold out. And there is no way Trump is going to round up and deport millions of immigrants.


Plus, the economy is unlikely to be able to continue as it has been going. At some point in most likely the near future, there will be another economic dip(IE a correction to this inflated market). If it happens at the right time(IE in the year of the next election), it will doom Trump to one-term.


You think you've won, but you haven't won anything.
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Old 12-26-2016, 07:33 AM
 
51,651 posts, read 25,813,568 times
Reputation: 37889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
All governments are run by a coalition. Whether that coalition is formed from multiple external parties, or if it is formed within a single visible party, the outcome is exactly the same.


The democratic party is made up a coalition of left-of-center moderates, social-democrats, socialists, and communists, and a variety of other "special-interests" who vote based on "wedge-issues"(such as same-sex marriage).

The goal of both the Democratic party, as well as the Republican party, is to win 51% of the vote. And both parties will shift their political platform to accommodate any changes in the electorate.


The Democratic party is not going to die. Rather, they will just reinvent themselves. Just like Trump did with the Republican party.

And honestly, unless immigration policies change drastically, then over the long-term, the democrats will get stronger anyway.


The truth is, Trump won, because he was able to convince blue-dog democrats(IE blue-collar workers), to vote for him. And unless he is able to deliver what he promised, or unless he is able to do something about the millions of immigrants who will likely vote against him in future elections, the pendulum will swing back to the left.


In my view, Trump isn't going to be able to deliver on almost anything he ran on. The money in this country wants to continue to "globalize" the economy. The American worker is going to continue to be sold out. And there is no way Trump is going to round up and deport millions of immigrants.


Plus, the economy is unlikely to be able to continue as it has been going. At some point in most likely the near future, there will be another economic dip(IE a correction to this inflated market). If it happens at the right time(IE in the year of the next election), it will doom Trump to one-term.


You think you've won, but you haven't won anything.

You make some excellent points.

The focus for Democrats has got to be honest elections. Voter suppression and gerrymandering has got to be dealt with.

We need to insist on easily verifiable paper ballots. By some strange coincidence, in Wisconsin all the counties that had paper ballots ended up in the Clinton column. Those with electronic voting ended up in Trump's.

I think it was Michigan where nearly 90,000 ballots were counted as not having voted for a president. That's a concern.

North Carolina News and Observer just had an article about how there were so many problems with the election process that "North Carolina can no longer be considered a democracy, according to a new report from the Electoral Integrity Project (EIP), which rated the state's overall electoral integrity at the same levels of those in authoritarian states and "pseudo-democracies" such as Cuba, Indonesia and Sierra Leon."

Point of View: North Carolina no longer a democracy | News & Observer
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Old 12-26-2016, 07:35 AM
 
51,651 posts, read 25,813,568 times
Reputation: 37889
“A man who wouldn't cheat for a poke don't want one bad enough. --Augustus "Gus" McCrae”
― Larry McMurtry, Lonesome Dove

I do believe this applies to our elections.
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Old 12-26-2016, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,850 posts, read 26,268,189 times
Reputation: 34058
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
If illegals and those ineligible were prevented from realistically casting votes, there wouldn't be a need to have to fix everything. Since California allowed illegals to drive, drivers licenses won't work in fast state, just like TSA doesn't recognize California drivers licenses for boarding planes.
The license issued to undocumented people in California is NOT the same as a regular driver's license, it doesn't even look the same. California like a number of other states, issue driver's licenses to citizens that are not Real ID compliant, that will only be an issue if California is not compliant in 2020

And if you want to go to these lengths to defend voter ID laws, then let's hear your case for closing polling places and restricting times and days for early voting, what kind of 'fraud' does that prevent? And while you are at it explain why conservatives are so aggressive about voter ID for in person voting where there is virtually no fraud but they aren't concerned with the largest source of voter fraud, absentee ballots?
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Old 12-26-2016, 09:37 AM
 
5,097 posts, read 2,314,170 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
All governments are run by a coalition. Whether that coalition is formed from multiple external parties, or if it is formed within a single visible party, the outcome is exactly the same.


The democratic party is made up a coalition of left-of-center moderates, social-democrats, socialists, and communists, and a variety of other "special-interests" who vote based on "wedge-issues"(such as same-sex marriage).

The goal of both the Democratic party, as well as the Republican party, is to win 51% of the vote. And both parties will shift their political platform to accommodate any changes in the electorate.


The Democratic party is not going to die. Rather, they will just reinvent themselves. Just like Trump did with the Republican party.

And honestly, unless immigration policies change drastically, then over the long-term, the democrats will get stronger anyway.


The truth is, Trump won, because he was able to convince blue-dog democrats(IE blue-collar workers), to vote for him. And unless he is able to deliver what he promised, or unless he is able to do something about the millions of immigrants who will likely vote against him in future elections, the pendulum will swing back to the left.


In my view, Trump isn't going to be able to deliver on almost anything he ran on. The money in this country wants to continue to "globalize" the economy. The American worker is going to continue to be sold out. And there is no way Trump is going to round up and deport millions of immigrants.


Plus, the economy is unlikely to be able to continue as it has been going. At some point in most likely the near future, there will be another economic dip(IE a correction to this inflated market). If it happens at the right time(IE in the year of the next election), it will doom Trump to one-term.


You think you've won, but you haven't won anything.
Another one who has a crystal ball. Are those things being given away somewhere?
And you give reasons why people in the rust belt may may become disenchanted with Trump, but you give no reasons why they would vote for a Democrat. I don't see any, unless they like being called names.
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,207,531 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by fat lou View Post
Another one who has a crystal ball. Are those things being given away somewhere?
And you give reasons why people in the rust belt may may become disenchanted with Trump, but you give no reasons why they would vote for a Democrat. I don't see any, unless they like being called names.
There is still a lot of debate whether or not Bernie Sanders could have beaten Donald Trump in a general election. Would those Blue-Collar workers in the Rust-belt have voted for Trump or Sanders?


I can remember the Democratic debates, and Bernie showed far more respect for Hillary Clinton than she deserved. He wouldn't have resorted to the name-calling that she did.


If another populist like Bernie comes along in a few years, and if Donald Trump hasn't delivered on his promises, what do you think is going to happen?


The democrats are going to win the West coast and the northeast. If they win the Rust-belt, they win every time.
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:23 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
There is still a lot of debate whether or not Bernie Sanders could have beaten Donald Trump in a general election. Would those Blue-Collar workers in the Rust-belt have voted for Trump or Sanders?

I can remember the Democratic debates, and Bernie showed far more respect for Hillary Clinton than she deserved. He wouldn't have resorted to the name-calling that she did.
He would have ran on issues as opposed to running on "I'm incompetent but he's a racist".

Quote:
If another populist like Bernie comes along in a few years, and if Donald Trump hasn't delivered on his promises, what do you think is going to happen?


The democrats are going to win the West coast and the northeast. If they win the Rust-belt, they win every time.
Right now I do not see a candidate coming out of a (D) race like that. I noted that someone like Tim Ryan might be a good candidate but Pelosi will never allow that to happen. That the West Coast and NE controls the party is a part of the problem.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,935,949 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashrendar4454 View Post
They are already at their weakest point since the 1920s and they have a unfavorable map in 2018. With them putting Pelosi back, saying "nothing needs to change, blaming everything on Russia, unable to choose whether they want limousine liberals like Pelosi, Reid, or Clinton or far left lunatics like Elizabeth Warren and Keith Ellison and ignoring or shaming moderate, middle of the road democrats, and continuing to double down on identity politics and supporting radical movements like Black Lives Matter, Maybe this party can die off. It will be nothing but a good thing.
A couple of years under trump, or possibly pence, and the democrats might be very alive and well. I do find it interesting that some are so caught up in their win that they forget nearly 50% of voters did not see either Party candidate worthy of the time to vote for.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Pa
42,763 posts, read 52,855,270 times
Reputation: 25362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
A couple of years under trump, or possibly pence, and the democrats might be very alive and well. I do find it interesting that some are so caught up in their win that they forget nearly 50% of voters did not see either Party candidate worthy of the time to vote for.
This is very true and neither will die off,more so power together to defeat the evil around us.
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