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Old 12-20-2016, 08:55 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,273,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njquestions View Post
Also my dime, since I bet the employer got a subsidy for that from the government, as did the car manufacturer. It's not a better alternative if it requires subsidization.
My employer does not. It costs my employer almost nothing at that. Most Everything requires subsidize. I support removing many of them but we are having a hard time getting Wall Street out of the way.

Ford never would have got off the ground if we hadn't come together to pool our resources to build passable roads.

You are being no less hypocritical than the Al Gore's.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:56 AM
 
1,850 posts, read 822,250 times
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
That doesn't mean it is flawless.
Then you should probably not act as if it is. Also, that was probably the understatement of the year.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:56 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,753,083 times
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Originally Posted by njquestions View Post
No, I don't think you study hurricanes. If you did, you'd probably not have such poor beliefs about them (although, who knows).
What is a "poor" belief?
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:58 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,273,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
Yes, this.

I am not a climate scientist and neither is anyone on this board; the consensus is that it is real and happening. We all should listen to and accept input from those better informed than yourself - which would include a large number of PhDs who have endorsed such policies.
That's not what I said.
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:19 AM
 
Location: NH
4,217 posts, read 3,768,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njquestions View Post
That's interesting, so "do what I say, regardless of whether it has any impact on global warming or not." That's a new bar.
If the person in the room quit smoking it may or may not have an affect on the ceiling in my example. Best case scenario is the paint stops peeling, worst case is that it does not and it has been proven that it just naturally occurs over time. But in this scenario we get to breath clean air so why do we need scientists to tell us facts that only some people find credible. Isnt the need and want for clean air credible enough?
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:20 AM
 
Location: USA
18,505 posts, read 9,181,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangman66 View Post
Again...regardless if humans cause global warming or not, isn't it common sense to protect the environment so we have clean air to breath, clean water to drink, etc? I compare this to sitting in a smoke filled room. Does the cigarette smoke peel the paint off the ceiling or does it just naturally occur over time? Scientist A says it does but Scientist B says it doesn't...this data doesn't really matter as I just want to breath clean air. Common sense says that there isn't an economy to worry about if we don't have an environment to live in.
I agree in principle, but unfortunately we don't yet have an economical replacement for fossil fuels.

Solar and wind are getting cheaper, but they are intermittent. Wind and solar will not be able to make up the backbone of the electricity grid until we have batteries big enough (and cheap enough) to store huge amounts electricity for dark/calm periods. As of now, we do not have said battery technology. See the following article for more detail: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/...sized-battery/

There's nuclear power, but the greens don't like it and the public fears it. Uranium fuel is required and we don't have more than a few centuries of supply at current use rates. If we scaled up nuclear to replace fossil fuels, we'd probably have only a few decades of fuel.

Electric cars are getting better, but they are still expensive and have less range than conventional cars. And what about battery longevity? The lithium ion battery in my iPhone has about half the capacity that it did two years ago when it was brand new. I'm not going to buy a car that might have half its original range after only a few years.

Last edited by Freak80; 12-20-2016 at 09:28 AM..
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:40 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,273,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
I agree in principle, but unfortunately we don't yet have an economical replacement for fossil fuels.

Solar and wind are getting cheaper, but they are intermittent. Wind and solar will not be able to make up the backbone of the electricity grid until we have batteries big enough (and cheap enough) to store huge amounts electricity for dark/calm periods. As of now, we do not have said battery technology. See the following article for more detail: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/...sized-battery/

There's nuclear power, but the greens don't like it and the public fears it. Uranium fuel is required and we don't have more than a few centuries of supply at current use rates. If we scaled up nuclear to replace fossil fuels, we'd probably have only a few decades of fuel.

Electric cars are getting better, but they are still expensive and have less range than conventional cars. And what about battery longevity? The lithium ion battery in my iPhone has about half the capacity that it did two years ago when it was brand new. I'm not going to buy a car that might have half its original range after only a few years.
The manufacturers actually did the batteries right. You are correct that they will degrade over time. What most did was make them use only a fraction (around 60%) of their charging ability. As the batter slowly degrades it's starts using this other 40% so they should last and have been lasting a long time.
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Old 12-20-2016, 09:58 AM
 
7,447 posts, read 2,839,148 times
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Oh yes lets all take our science advice from the guy that spits on peer review and doesn't understand statistical confidence intervals, what can go wrong?
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:09 AM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,963,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Could you clarify what you mean?

Rocket fuel can certainly be energy intensive to make, but it isn't a fossil fuel. It is mostly hydrazine. And like any process it can be as green as the electricity source you use.
No, SpaceX's liquid rocket boosters are fueled using kerosene based RP-1 and liquid oxygen. Hydrazine is typically used in small thrusters for use while in space.
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Old 12-20-2016, 10:21 AM
 
Location: USA
18,505 posts, read 9,181,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The manufacturers actually did the batteries right. You are correct that they will degrade over time. What most did was make them use only a fraction (around 60%) of their charging ability. As the batter slowly degrades it's starts using this other 40% so they should last and have been lasting a long time.
Seems like a sensible strategy: prevent the consumer from "using up" the battery all at once.

It will be interesting to see if electric cars can become mainstream. I don't think they are up to the task just yet. Even if gasoline goes back up to $4, electric cars would still be pretty expensive compared to conventional cars. And there's still the range, battery longevity, and charging time issue.

A breakthrough in battery technology could change all of that.

Unfortunately, electric cars would still get their electricity mainly from fossil power plants. The only existing technology that could replace coal and gas plants would be nuclear plants. We don't yet have the technology to store enough energy from solar and wind that we could eliminate fossil backup plants.

I have heard that electric cars would still emit less CO2 per mile even if the electricity came from coal, thanks to the better efficiency of power plants (compared to IC engines). But ultimately, electric cars would still contribute to climate change except in areas with lots of hydro and nuclear power.
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