did Democrats overestimate how much people care about social issues? (Putin, Reagan)
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like gay marriage, abortion, transgender bathrooms etc
it seems they thought these were deal breaking things for most Americans. That just because a candidate may not support those things they will immediately not vote for that candidate
Actually, I think what you are seeing is that Americans are still well split on social issues, and even those that support the Dems think things are going a bit too far.
Trump came right out and attacked Hillary on third term abortion- and I believe that he won the argument. Even those that support abortion do not see the point of third term abortion, even those who support gay rights do not see why crossdressers should be let in the girl's bathroom, etc.
I think whichever party pushes the hardest on social issues tends to lose. My sense is that Americans are OK with social norms evolving, but don't appreciate forced change via politicians.
The liberals have been unrelenting lately in their activism for transformative social change. In the last several years it's been everything from "Islam is part of the fabric of our society, to "straight white males are the devil" to the need to let millions of illegals and refugees in.
The left won a HUGE victory with gay marriage, but they didn't give the public a chance to let that settle. They were immediately on to transsexual issues and bathroom rights. It was way too much too soon. People have to get used to change before introducing more.
I think whichever party pushes the hardest on social issues tends to lose. My sense is that Americans are OK with social norms evolving, but don't appreciate forced change via politicians.
The liberals have been unrelenting lately in their activism for transformative social change. In the last several years it's been everything from "Islam is part of the fabric of our society, to "straight white males are the devil" to the need to let millions of illegals and refugees in.
The left won a HUGE victory with gay marriage, but they didn't give the public a chance to let that settle. They were immediately on to transsexual issues and bathroom rights. It was way too much too soon. People have to get used to change before introducing more.
^^^ This.
I also think they underestimated how little people like being insulted. Or even seeing and hearing others be insulted.
Personally, Trump, even with his verbal "faults," seemed like he would be fairer to all than H Clinton and the DNC.
like gay marriage, abortion, transgender bathrooms etc
it seems they thought these were deal breaking things for most Americans. That just because a candidate may not support those things they will immediately not vote for that candidate
I think they overestimated where the support for those issues existed. They assumed because the Northeast and West Coast found those issues to be important, other states would too. They took those middle American votes for granted in states where they generally went to the left candidate. They forgot that part of their platform in favor of social issues and it cost them. In some ways, any other Republican candidate than Trump, especially one along the lines of Milquetoast Mitt likely wouldn't have brought over those states either despite how little they cared for the social issues. They needed some drastically different to break them out of the status quo of voting for the Democrat candidate. A totally different style of candidate in Trump in combination with the over emphasis on social issues by the Democrats created a perfect storm.
Let me add this. The Trump campaign simply outstrategized the Clinton campaign on using the Electoral College to their advantage. And they rightly understood that these social issues were only popular in select regions. That's really what the Democrats failed to see; there is an intrinsic geographical context to the level of 'care' about these extreme social issues.
Note: Yes, I completely made up the word 'outstrategized' but I make no apologies for it.
like gay marriage, abortion, transgender bathrooms etc
I'm not anti those issues but liberals since Obama became president turned those issues into their new "soapbox issues". I'm not anti gay rights but I got tired of being hit over the head with LGBT issues the past 8 years.
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Originally Posted by cachibatches
Actually, I think what you are seeing is that Americans are still well split on social issues, and even those that support the Dems think things are going a bit too far.
Trump came right out and attacked Hillary on third term abortion- and I believe that he won the argument. Even those that support abortion do not see the point of third term abortion, even those who support gay rights do not see why crossdressers should be let in the girl's bathroom, etc.
a cross dresser =/= to transgendered. The argument over the bathroom is there because some states were trying to make it so that you had to use the restroom based on the sex on their birth certificate, even if they were post op.
As for abortion and 3rd term. I honestly dont remember that part of the debate even though I watched it, but i googled it, and if you believe that he won, then you are arguing emotions and not facts.
Late term abortions happen, sometimes because the baby has died in the womb or is deformed to the point that there is no chance for survival. But they dont happen the way Donald Trump claimed.
Let me add this. The Trump campaign simply outstrategized the Clinton campaign on using the Electoral College to their advantage. And they rightly understood that these social issues were only popular in select regions. That's really what the Democrats failed to see; there is an intrinsic geographical context to the level of 'care' about these extreme social issues.
Note: Yes, I completely made up the word 'outstrategized' but I make no apologies for it.
Clinton voter who agrees with the above.
Essentially, the Trump campaign was in the right places at the right time. The Clinton campaign was in the WRONG places at the wrong time. We can blame Putin, Comey all we want but the bottom line is her campaign strategists BLEW it big time.
I'd also add:
1. Too much focus on identity politics and not enough of a focus on blue collar/working class economic issues (that cut across all ethnic/gender lines, etc.). Get back to your roots Democrats.
2. Too much focus on what was wrong with Trump. Not enough on what Clinton was actually for.
3. Despite all her many qualifications, Clinton was just not likeable on T.V. or on the stump. Successful candidates in the modern age need to have this (Reagan, Bill Clinton, etc.).
Bill Maher summed up the victimhood of the far right and far left very nicely in this video:
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