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Can we somehow separate the "less fortunate" from the lazy, the criminally irresponsible and the stupid?
I'm not big on vast generalizations. What exactly does "criminally irresponsible" mean? We should just allow those born less fortunate that others to die?
How do you figure? If I walk into the hospital without insurance, they will ask for my contact information prior to treating me and I guarantee they will send a bill, even if I say I have no money to pay. I will be obligated to pay the bill once it arrives. How is this getting free healthcare?
If you have little to nothing how exactly are they going to get their money?
I know a guy who got just such a bill. For 700,000+ dollars. This was after his insurance maxxed at 1 million. He lost everything.
And yet the other 99.9% of people will have a manageable amount to pay. Those who pay insurance premiums (that btw increased after OBC) must pay their even higher deductibles on top of monthly premiums and the general 20%. Those without insurance (who are uninsured and pay a yearly fine for being uninsured) will set up payments.
IME the extreme cases such as the one of a guy you know are generally written off. Actually most insurance negotiate amounts much less than the original billing.
OTOH the poor people whom we help out thru OBC who pay no premiums get unlimited free health care.
Yes, congratulations, you are free to mooch your healthcare off the backs of other people again.
HAHAHA, the only people who actually like Obamacare are the ones being subsidized by tax payers. How do I know this because people like me who don't qualify for any subsidies have seen their premiums increase 500% since it was past.
I know a guy who got just such a bill. For 700,000+ dollars. This was after his insurance maxxed at 1 million. He lost everything.
Healthcare is rationed everywhere. In the US it has historically been rationed based on insurance and ability to pay out of pocket.
Those pre ACA plans almost always included an annual and/ or lifetime cap in the super majority of states that allowed such plans. In too many cases, the caps were just $ thousands, not $1 million.
Those plans also did not cap out of pocket expenses or did so at relatively high rates. Those uncovered out of pocket expenses may or may not have included your deductible, depending on state regulations.
Insurance transfers the financial risk from the insured to an insurance company. All insurance mutualizes risk.
An auto insurer needs enough drivers who do not make claims to offset claims made by those who do.
A property insurer needs enough property owners who do not make loss claims to offset claims made by those who do.
A liability insurer needs enough people who do not make claims to offset those who do.
A life insurer needs enough people who live to offset the claims made by the deceased's survivors.
Your state regulations, your address, your credit score and claims history are all factors of your premium.
You may never made an auto claim but if you live in an area with a high claims rate, you are paying a higher premium than the next guy who lives in an area with fewer claims made. In effect, your premium is subsidizing the other guy.
As it relates to health insurance, premiums are geo rated. This was true before the ACA and remains true post the ACA. States are sliced and diced into separate rating areas. For example Florida has 60 something geo rating areas. The claims made, ratio of healthcare providers to the population and ratio of hospital beds to the population are factors of your healthcare premium that you do not control.
Premiums can and do vary greatly for the same plan by the same insurer based on the geo rating.
Age and the broadness/ narrowness of the PPO also matters.
State regulations also matter. The ABC drug your kids needs may or may not be a required medication dependent on the state.
Set up payments? So how long would it take to pay off that 1 mil cancer treatment, for example?
Free medical is when you have insurance that pays 100% of your medical expenses and you dont actually pay a premium for coverage.
The average medical bill for anyone uninsured is no where near 1 million dollars.
When I had my first child I was uninsured. I set up payments and it took about 3 years to pay it off.
A co worker had to seek medical care recently for shingles, thought it might be meningitis, she and her husband are uninsured because insurance is not offered by the employer and they cant afford the monthly premiums so they just pay the fine. She negotiated with the hospital, as they will do, lowered the bill and is paying it off in 18 months.
Internal Revenue Service basically had no choice; tax filing season has begun and republicans have *yet* to present any alternative to ACA besides repeal.
However would advise all jumping down with excitement not to wear yourselves out; this is *NOT* going to go well.
As it is not nearly enough healthy were signing up for ACA to offset the ill to very that are; now with certainly lower to nil of the former signing up (why would they if nothing is holding their feet to the fire?), the healthcare system of this country is likely soon to revolt.
Insurance companies are not going to hang around and accept unlimited liabilities (the sick) against nil revenue from the well. All insurance revolves around the same core principle; those who use the thing most pay into it and receive benefits, versus those that pay into a system but file few to no claims. When that goes out of balance rates for the remaining will increase, or the company will go out of business, it is just that simple.
Insurance companies are likely soon to push for an end of accepting persons with pre-existing conditions no questions asked and or limits. Which under pervious rules was anything from pregnancy to a child born with health issues and or anything in between.
Hospitals and other healthcare providers may and probably will push to restore aggressive collection action for unpaid bills.
If you have little to nothing how exactly are they going to get their money?
Well for me, I have a very low income but have a home, and an 800 credit score. I might not have money, but I would somehow have to pay the bill to retain these things that are valuable to me.
Yes, congratulations, you are free to mooch your healthcare off the backs of other people again.
Which is exactly what ObamaCareNot was too!
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Originally Posted by dechatelet
Most of the people on O'care are mooching off the backs of other people by getting subsidies -- and that doesn't even include the Medicaid expansion.
Not sure how anyone missed that either.
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Originally Posted by AlongTheI-5
What happens when these people get sick? Are they treated by someone anyway?
Not everyone runs to the doctor when they get sick to begin with. Avoid the doctor, end up healthier in the long run all too often.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Yes, they just walk into ER and have others pick up the bill.
You are thinking of illegal aliens. They use the emergency room at 3 times the rate of citizens and Medicaid (taxpayers) pick up the tab. We also cover maternity care for illegal aliens from conception to birth and then cover the anchor.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Back when we were a Christian nation people didn't complain about helping out the less fortunate.
We were never a Christian nation. Christians are still welcome to help pay the bills of the less fortunate, go for it!
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Originally Posted by tinytrump
The problem with sick is that it spreads- and it's more costly- when not nipped at the bud.
The man gets a cold or a bug-- no Ins... so doesn't go to the Dr. -now has pneumonia, now he is worse off and still does not go to the Dr- until collapses - now he is in critical care at some hospital- running in the millions. While in hospital -he loses his job - wife makes little, so gets food stamps- now we taxpayers paying more than a bottle of antibiotics and a DR visit--
oops- it was a contagious bug--and his kid sick too-- but kids goes to school on a bus --and happens to be the same bus your kid takes
I have lots of colds/bugs over 62 years and never collapsed and never went to the doctor. Your example is just silly!
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Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
Trump keeps another campaign promise.
Obamacare is going down in flames.
I'm thrilled by this. Fining people through their taxes was never right. Forcing people to buy health insurance was never right. Nothing about ObamaCareNot was ever right.
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Originally Posted by KS_Referee
Charity is NOT something taken by force with a threat of throwing you in prison if you refuse to contribute to that charity. That is taxes, and taxing someone to fund YOUR charity is theft.
Great post!
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Originally Posted by 2mares
For those that don't get free medical what you do is set up payments and pay your bill. Imagine that, pay your bill, who would have thunk it.
Exactly. I knew someone whose insurance would not cover their experimental heart surgery, which did work out great, and her husband told me that hearing the price at that time $40,000, he told them they could never afford it. They told him, just like buying a house, we will take payments.
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Originally Posted by ottomobeale
I know a guy who got just such a bill. For 700,000+ dollars. This was after his insurance maxxed at 1 million. He lost everything.
I read that with medical bankruptcy, 75% had health insurance.
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Originally Posted by Rakin
LOL, that's exactly what Ocare allowed the freeloaders to do. My coverage went up 150% to over $1080 a month to pay for all those Moochers you refer.
I follow the blog of one of those that we subsidize, a full-time RVer, last month's budget insurance dropped $700 since they got ObamaCareNot which allowed them a $100 Red Lobster meal, pedicures/manicures/haircut & style............ I no longer subscribe to the blog.
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Originally Posted by kevinm
Same guy with Obamacare has a $12K deductible and his first bill for treatment would be $1500 so he doesn't go anyway because he can't pay that either because his premium is $800/month and rent is due.
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Originally Posted by daylux
People like you want separation of church and state unless it has to do with fleecing Christians $$ lol.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
OK.....tell me how we are going to take care of the medical needs of the country with charity. I will listen.
Also, throw in how you are going to pay for bridges across major waterways on top of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
And yet the other 99.9% of people will have a manageable amount to pay. Those who pay insurance premiums (that btw increased after OBC) must pay their even higher deductibles on top of monthly premiums and the general 20%. Those without insurance (who are uninsured and pay a yearly fine for being uninsured) will set up payments.
IME the extreme cases such as the one of a guy you know are generally written off. Actually most insurance negotiate amounts much less than the original billing.
OTOH the poor people whom we help out thru OBC who pay no premiums get unlimited free health care.
While this was a boom for some, it was a tragedy for those with too much money to get on Medicaid and not enough to actually afford their co-pays and insurance cost.
ObamaCareNot turned out to be exactly what we knew it would be.
This was not about affordable healthcare to begin with and in the end, neither was it about affordable health insurance for EVERYONE.
I am glad to see this. It should never have been a tax.
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