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Old 03-09-2017, 08:14 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,576,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Wall Street needs to quit expecting taxpayers to bail them out. Many are poor because Wall Street sent the jobs they used to be able to get to China and Mexico.
Why do jobs leave? Because the cost of doing business getting higher, thanks to all the liberal policies, minimum wage and taxes? Because the consumers want cheaper products?
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,214,154 times
Reputation: 4590
Capitalism is a top-down system. And for the most-part, the more top-down capitalism is, the more efficient/productive it is.


When you're talking about capitalism and efficiency, you're talking about an "economy of scale".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale


If everyone owned equal amounts of land, it would be pointless to build massive tractors/combines/harvesters, and other heavy equipment. The biggest harvesters would only get a return on investment if the farmer owned thousands of acres.


The bigger the corporation, generally the more-efficient and profitable. As much as people talk of the benefits of "competition". You don't really want a hundred different car companies, or cell-phone companies. In most cases, you need two or three. Enough to have competition, but not enough to prevent an economy-of-scale.


In some cases, it isn't even practical to have any direct competition(think of the electrical grid). Though there is still competition from neighboring systems, which create pseudo-competition.


And this doesn't even include the human factors.

Imagine you took 100 random people and put them on 100 acres of land. How would you organize the land to be most-productive? Before you answer, you need to imagine the attitudes, behaviors, abilities, and temperaments of 100 random people.


The truth is, a large portion of the people are either lazy, unambitious, irrational, and/or incompetent. And out of 100 random people, there are going to be a few who are very hard-working, ambitious, calm, and capable. If you want someone to organize your 100 acres to be the most-productive, you need to place those people into positions of authority.

And you don't want to just divvy up the 100 acres between the 100 people. You would want maybe two farms, of roughly-equal size, and have the most-capable men running them, with everyone else working for those two men. Or doing other jobs.


Basically, the ideal world for production, is one in which a handful of the most-intelligent, most-capable, and most-ambitious men, own everything, and organize it for maximum profit. And where they cannot directly have control, they should distribute their authority down to others, in a hierarchy.


Moreover, capitalism is about "trade". But for someone to want to trade, he has to see that his time(IE his money), is worth trading for someone else's time(IE their money).

But, if everyone was making equal wages, then there would be less trade. Why pay someone $100 for something you could just in the same amount of time? You only trade when you believe there is an advantage to trading.


The best way to keep people trading, is to manipulate prices and wages, to maximize trade/consumption. In this sense, money tends to "trickle-down". With the wealthy buying goods from the middle-class, and the middle-class buying goods from the lower-class.

But without some way to move the money from the lower-classes back up to the top, this "circular-flow" would stop.

Which is why the machinations of finance, and especially the Federal-Reserve(and other fiat systems) are so important. They are what keeps the economic "pump" going. You need to keep the people in debt, to keep the money flowing to the banks. But also, through debt, you are able to use "fractional-reserve" banking to expand the money supply, further pumping new dollars into the system at the top.

The Federal Reserve system is what allows the stock-market to continue going up, seemingly indefinitely. You just print off new dollars, and then inject them into stock/asset markets, giving more capital to the holders of those assets.

The Federal Reserve system is what allows the stock-market to rise 7-10% a year, seemingly forever. And that produces trillions of dollars in capital every year, which can then be used to buy "real-assets", all over the world(oil, farmland, etc).


Also, taxes themselves are a system of trickle-down(though less-directly). And if you look at Washington D.C., you'll see not only huge wealth-inequality within the city, but the D.C. area contains about six of the ten richest counties in America.


Taxes pull money away from one place, and then put it into another. Its why every state is desperate to keep their military bases, and government contracts.


The alternative, is for everyone to be poor dirt-farmers.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 03-09-2017 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:56 PM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,464,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
So while I agree with Southern sentiments that the North were the aggressors, and that the reconstruction era was atrocious; The South should be thankful that the North won.

At best you would be Brazil right now.
I do not agree that the north solely were the 'aggressors'. It was far too complicated a scenario to describe it so simply.

However, I can say this: My only ancestor who fought in the war between the states fought for Mississippi in the cavalry.

Later in life he did say losing that war was the best thing that could have happened, they could finally buy good land and make something of themselves.

I see the effect as something like trust-busting. The wealthy planters had become monopolists, and along the lines of what you say the country would be something like a banana republic if the southern Confederacy had survived. Working people of any origin would have been downtrodden for generations to come.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:04 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,231,797 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Why do jobs leave? Because the cost of doing business getting higher, thanks to all the liberal policies, minimum wage and taxes? Because the consumers want cheaper products?
Yes, if Wall Street could get away with paying $2.50 an hour here they would do so. I won't argue there.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Wall Street needs to quit expecting taxpayers to bail them out. Many are poor because Wall Street sent the jobs they used to be able to get to China and Mexico.
Are you familiar with Ricardo's Theory of Comparative Advantage?

Wall Street's purpose is to increase shareholder wealth. It should be your purpose to make yourself employable at a decent wage.
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,899,377 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Yes, if Wall Street could get away with paying $2.50 an hour here they would do so. I won't argue there.
If I could get away with paying a nickel for a new car I would do so.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,013 posts, read 1,430,337 times
Reputation: 4062
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Where do you think their money go?

Hint: it trickles down.
Since the share of wealth held by the top has only increased over the last 20 years I don't need a hint.

The data says the money actually trickles up, not down. How do you explain the rich keep getting richer?
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:07 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,231,797 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Are you familiar with Ricardo's Theory of Comparative Advantage?
I do NOT care about theories. Theories are for professors in a class room that never have to actually put their theories into practice.

Quote:
Wall Street's purpose is to increase shareholder wealth. It should be your purpose to make yourself employable at a decent wage.
For what job? We do this over and over and over and I ask "where are these jobs" and there is never a reply. Yes, a small number can go to school and land a good job but we need millions of jobs.

Your response is "**** them".
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:09 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,231,797 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
If I could get away with paying a nickel for a new car I would do so.
But you can't. Nor can we get away with sending jobs overseas because we want to continually drive wages down to make sure Wall Street grows. It's amazing how people are unable to understand that this is not sustainable.

You got yours for now, so all is well. It's not going to be for our offspring.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:22 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,877,895 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Are you familiar with Ricardo's Theory of Comparative Advantage?

Wall Street's purpose is to increase shareholder wealth. It should be your purpose to make yourself employable at a decent wage.
The person you responded to has a pension, and expects to collect pension checks. As a shareholder in that regard, they're already benefiting from increased shareholder wealth. I keep challenging the person to give up their pension to put their integrity where their mouth is, but that person won't do it.

Hypocrisy abounds. /SMH Just ignore those posts. They're trolling.
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