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what i read about Kendrick was that he was attacked because he said he like natural women and women were talking about "don't tell us how to be". Which is why it came off a a bit of fake outrage because a black rapper finally starts talking something other than ratchet and it was still met with anger.
Honestly, I've never listened to any of Kendrick's songs until the controversy, because I'm not into that sort of music, but I am familiar with the points that were made about him on social media. Based on my understanding, the backlash wasn't due to Kendrick mentioning that it's good to be "humble" and "natural." It was more or less that he chose to feature the face of a biracial woman and the backside of a dark woman. This seemed to tie in with the notion that the biracial woman is the overall, appealing woman, while the dark woman is strictly sexualized (since her face is never shown). I think this is what enraged a number of black women.
--Sometimes you have to look at the subliminal messages. I watched the video. I did find it odd that he chose to feature a dark behind jiggling, but the face of a biracial woman. Also it was very disrespectful for him to refer to black women as "b&@ches." Some also took offense that he was not preaching to black men to be humble as well. I'm not sure why this wasn't done, but many believed it was in poor taste.
And you don't know any black men different from all that?
Wanted to also note that my own dad, who I love and adore deeply, was an admitted, voracious womanizer, as was his father (his parents divorced when he was about 12 but he always had a close relationship with his father until his father passed away).
I've seen my dad be disrespectful to women, including my mother and my step mother. He has said some very misogynistic statements as well. He is older now, in his 60s and isn't like that anymore, but he raised my brothers/his son's during the years he was that way. And so they are also disrespectful to women and have some misogynistic attitudes.
My older brother has flat out said that he doesn't do anything at the school for his child because that his "for his mother to do" and is "women's duties" to "take care of the kids."
He also has had issues because he would not grocery shop for his sons/my nephews because that was something "his woman should do." All those things he got from our dad. And again, I adore my dad. He is a great man and all people are made up of good and bad. But black men do need to realize that 1 - most black men do raise their children, it is not the mother's raising them by themselves for the most part and 2 - many of the behaviors that this new generation of men exhibit, especially the sexist stuff like my brother frequently speaks about, is something that they got from their dads/men in their lives. Single mothers don't raise their sons with the idea that they shouldn't do certain chores or take on certain responsibilities. That is something that they get from their fathers, other male family members, or male friends.
I remember when we were little kids about 8-10 years old my older and brother and I, since we were the oldest, had to take out the trash. He told my mom that I shouldn't be taking out the trash because it was "a man's job" and she told him that there was no such thing as man or woman's jobs in our house - that everybody helped. He went on and on about it being a "man's job" and so my mom told him that since he was so bothered by it, he could take out the trash every week going forward and I didn't have to do it. He regretted that lol. Point being, women usually don't put these sort of roles on young boys and especially not single mothers as like in my house, everyone helps.
My own husband was raised by a single mother. He did all sorts of chores in the house and took care of younger cousins. But in the past it was a huge issue in our relationship and nearly caused me to divorce him over the fact that he felt that since he was "the man of the house" that his opinion should be the only one that mattered, that he didn't have to do certain chores, and that he was not as responsible when it came to childcare duties as I was. This stuff came out of his mouth and was a source of many arguments. His mother even argued with him about it!! She was embarrassed and apologized to me about his behavior and still says to me when he says some patriarchal moronic thing that she "didn't raise him like that" and she doesn't know where he got it from. He got it from his uncles and male friends and church ironically.
See, people don't want to hear this reality. The vast majority of black men aren't sitting around talking about black women in either good or bad ways all the time. It's usually just about physical looks, but like you said people of all races do that.
And like i said, the source of this false "black are sexist" stuff comes mostly from those few dudes on YT. And i know they the women here know who i'm talking about. Internet talking heads would have you thinking black men AND women sit around talking about the other gender all day when that's not the case. They would have you think black men and women are at war, when that's not the case. They would have you thinking black men AND women are interracially dating at crazy high rates and it's not the case.
And at the end of the day, many black men will tell you that the sexist, misogynistic, thuggish black men ironically are the ones that alot of women tend to be attracted to. As another poster eluded to, let's not alot of black women aren't consciously picking the bad guys because they are exciting. That IS a thing.
I agree that all men are like this, which is what I stated earlier.
However, I do not hear white men speak negatively specifically of "white women" like you see black men do.
I do feel that is an issue and it not just a thuggish issue.
All the men in my own family have said negative things specifically about "black women." Mostly that we are "hard to control" or have "attitude problems" or are "too controlling" and other things. They say "black" women specifically.
When I bring up the women in our family, with my husband, I will even say "I'm not like that and I'm a black woman" and he'll say "the other black women." I tell him that he shouldn't generalize black women as being negative and it is the same thing as when black men are negatively generalized based on their race and gender as well. He doesn't agree with that. Unfortunately, he speaks the most negatively about black women in general versus my own male family members but is a huge conversationalists about stereotypes of black men. He is a business owner and college educated and has never been in prison or convicted of anything. He is also very intelligent. I don't mess with dumb men and I like nerdy men. But he has a lot of sexist attitudes that are specifically situated on black women as do all the men in his family and his male friends and he even gets my male family members to agree with some of the stuff he says. So it goes beyond the man/woman thing with black men a lot of the times.
ETA: recently I visited with the parent of a friend of my husband's, the friend is married to a white woman. My husband and the father of this friend went on and on about how black women wouldn't "give him the time of day" and how they always were "mean" to him and that he "had to get a white woman" because "white women are nicer." This went on for about 10 minutes until I had to interrupt that conversation and give them a piece of my mind in a respectable fashion because these were elderly people. Point being though is that it is very common for black men to denigrate black women specifically. I am not a consumer of internet media and don't really like social media and youtube much. However, I also live in an integrated area and have non-black in-laws who are white men and Latino. I hang out with their families and even hear the men speak how men speak about women in their joking way and they are different than black men who will denigrate a black woman and think it is a joke in a heartbeat. They will do it in front of young black boys and those boys, like my husband grow up and do the same thing. As stated this has been a huge issue in our marriage as I am adamant that I don't want our son growing up with such moronic, sexist, misogynistic beliefs about black women. My husband has toned down this behavior a lot but I worry that the damage is done due to the way he spoke for the first 7 years of our son's life.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 04-11-2017 at 10:00 AM..
Sounds like a really good cause. That's awesome. Honestly. My wife would be on board with that for sure.
But me personally I haven't come across anything terrible.
Sure, there are a few ignorant young 20-somethings that sometimes refer to women as the b-word, but they're kids. I'm 34. People I consider friends and associates don't talk that way. Women call each other "thots" more than guys do, at least from what I see on social media.
I mean, our president was caught on tape saying he grabs women by the ***** and yet tens of millions of people still voted for him I love and respect women, to include my wife and my mother. I personally would not hang out with people that talked the way Trump did. "Locker room talk" my ass. Trump is a misogynistic pig.
The strategy that you are attempting to employ is one of deflection. Instead of simply acknowledging that you may be out of the loop, you're actually telling me that it's women who call ourselves "thots." Do you know what a thot is? It essentially means "that ho over there." This language was created by black males to demean black women.
Also, it is not mere locker room talk when a number of black men all over social media are using those derogatory terms to primarily describe black women.
In terms of perceived attitudes it begs the question, perceived by whom?
I don't agree with the sweeping generalisation that black people or black women or black men have 'attitudes.'
Some black people have attitudes just as some Asian, Hispanic, or White people have attitudes.
To characterise all black people as having 'attitudes' really shows the lack of experience and interaction with people in general.
by the way, I like the music groups such as Loose Ends and Soul II Soul
I've been friends with a lot of people from very different backgrounds; representing a significant number of different countries, tribal affiliations, languages, religious beliefs etc.
Generally, they all seemed to want to work hard, earn money and improve their lot in life.
I would suggest that it is far more about local culture than about race in the US; and this is especially true amongst some of the younger generation.
In term of interracial dating, well, we are now more open than our grandparents generation. My brother has a thing for black ladies, and black ladies love him too. I have no problems either way as long she is good to my brother.
I think black ladies are more open to men outside their races. I think it is a good thing. Why are you so angry if the lady or the man dates outside his or her race? he/she can only marry one person anyway, there are plenty of fish in the sea. Just leave people alone already.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 04-11-2017 at 10:13 AM..
I agree that all men are like this, which is what I stated earlier.
However, I do not hear white men speak negatively specifically of "white women" like you see black men do.
I do feel that is an issue and it not just a thuggish issue.
All the men in my own family have said negative things specifically about "black women." Mostly that we are "hard to control" or have "attitude problems" or are "too controlling" and other things. They say "black" women specifically.
When I bring up the women in our family, with my husband, I will even say "I'm not like that and I'm a black woman" and he'll say "the other black women." I tell him that he shouldn't generalize black women as being negative and it is the same thing as when black men are negatively generalized based on their race and gender as well. He doesn't agree with that. Unfortunately, he speaks the most negatively about black women in general versus my own male family members but is a huge conversationalists about stereotypes of black men. He is a business owner and college educated and has never been in prison or convicted of anything. He is also very intelligent. I don't mess with dumb men and I like nerdy men. But he has a lot of sexist attitudes that are specifically situated on black women as do all the men in his family and his male friends and he even gets my male family members to agree with some of the stuff he says. So it goes beyond the man/woman thing with black men a lot of the times.
ETA: recently I visited with the parent of a friend of my husband's, the friend is married to a white woman. My husband and the father of this friend went on and on about how black women wouldn't "give him the time of day" and how they always were "mean" to him and that he "had to get a white woman" because "white women are nicer." This went on for about 10 minutes until I had to interrupt that conversation and give them a piece of my mind in a respectable fashion because these were elderly people. Point being though is that it is very common for black men to denigrate black women specifically. I am not a consumer of internet media and don't really like social media and youtube much. However, I also live in an integrated area and have non-black in-laws who are white men and Latino. I hang out with their families and even hear the men speak how men speak about women in their joking way and they are different than black men who will denigrate a black woman and think it is a joke in a heartbeat. They will do it in front of young black boys and those boys, like my husband grow up and do the same thing. As stated this has been a huge issue in our marriage as I am adamant that I don't want our son growing up with such moronic, sexist, misogynistic beliefs about black women. My husband has toned down this behavior a lot but I worry that the damage is done due to the way he spoke for the first 7 years of our son's life.
I do hear white men talk about women in general...they may not mention race, because they are talking about white women the same way "all lives matter" means white. I have also heard dudes that were italian talk about italian women, asian men talk about asian women, irish men talk about irish women. Everybody does it. It comes off as a specific black male problem the way SOME black women portray it. And on the flip side i've heard black women say bad stuff about black men. And honestly, it's just venting in my opinion. It's expected and some times it is a round about way of getting things off your chest. I mean, if some dude's girl cheats on him and he calls her a "h0e"...is he talking about all black women? If a black man cheats on a black woman and she calls black men dogs in that moments can she just be venting and it not be some declaration of war?
And, the "i like nerdy guys" thing...is extremely new in the black community. I'm 35 I know this wasn't a thing until maybe as recently as like 5 years ago. This wasn't a thing for the longest. LOL. And I know of the dudes alot of black women have chosen based on what i see and the fact that the vast majority of my female family members are single mothers all from the same type of thugged out bum dudes. Black for the most part aren't picking mr. stability, they are picking mr. excitement.
I do hear white men talk about women in general...they may not mention race, because they are talking about white women the same way "all lives matter" means white. I have also heard dudes that were italian talk about italian women, asian men talk about asian women, irish men talk about irish women. Everybody does it. It comes off as a specific black male problem the way SOME black women portray it. And on the flip side i've heard black women say bad stuff about black men. And honestly, it's just venting in my opinion. It's expected and some times it is a round about way of getting things off your chest. I mean, if some dude's girl cheats on him and he calls her a "h0e"...is he talking about all black women? If a black man cheats on a black woman and she calls black men dogs in that moments can she just be venting and it not be some declaration of war?
And, the "i like nerdy guys" thing...is extremely new in the black community. I'm 35 I know this wasn't a thing until maybe as recently as like 5 years ago. This wasn't a thing for the longest. LOL. And I know of the dudes alot of black women have chosen based on what i see and the fact that the vast majority of my female family members are single mothers all from the same type of thugged out bum dudes. Black for the most part aren't picking mr. stability, they are picking mr. excitement.
I do hear white men talk about women in general...they may not mention race, because they are talking about white women the same way "all lives matter" means white. I have also heard dudes that were italian talk about italian women, asian men talk about asian women, irish men talk about irish women. Everybody does it. It comes off as a specific black male problem the way SOME black women portray it. And on the flip side i've heard black women say bad stuff about black men. And honestly, it's just venting in my opinion. It's expected and some times it is a round about way of getting things off your chest. I mean, if some dude's girl cheats on him and he calls her a "h0e"...is he talking about all black women? If a black man cheats on a black woman and she calls black men dogs in that moments can she just be venting and it not be some declaration of war?
And, the "i like nerdy guys" thing...is extremely new in the black community. I'm 35 I know this wasn't a thing until maybe as recently as like 5 years ago. This wasn't a thing for the longest. LOL. And I know of the dudes alot of black women have chosen based on what i see and the fact that the vast majority of my female family members are single mothers all from the same type of thugged out bum dudes. Black for the most part aren't picking mr. stability, they are picking mr. excitement.
I've always been a stand out for liking nerdy guys lol.
I've dated "outside my race" before as well because I like nerdy guys. I can't be with a dummy. They also don't have good career prospects. I read a lot and so most of my conversation IRL centers around books. I'm 37 and so it was not a "thing" when I was a teen and 20 something to be into nerdy guys but I've always felt I'm a trailblazer lol. I also "went natural" in 1997 way before all the other black women jumped on the bandwagon.
And I agree that black women speak negatively about black men too based on silly things - like them being lazy or not good fathers, etc. As stated above, I have general prejudices against all men. Sounds mean, but it is the truth. I think the only difference with the black men and men in general is the focus on commenting so negatively about "black women" in a specific way.
On the single mothers in the family, most of the ones in my family have children by their "first loves" and those guys aren't thugs at all. They are lazy IMO but not thuggish and not criminals and not "bad boys." They are just regular lazy men. I would characterize them as "bums" but not thugs. I know most of the fathers of the kids in the family being raised by single mothers and they are all nice as far as I can tell but I can see the lazy in them. Even though my own husband can be lazy as well, he isn't when it comes to "hustling" and making money for the family. That and his intelligence was the main thing I was attracted to him over - he has a very good work ethic and is a very driven person and finishes what he starts. He also is a voracious reader and I have to be with someone who reads for pleasure. I cannot stand men who are lazy and who have a lack of ambition and or who are idiots. And I've been this way since I was about 14.
I don't mess with dumb men and I like nerdy men. But he has a lot of sexist attitudes that are specifically situated on black women as do all the men in his family and his male friends and he even gets my male family members to agree with some of the stuff he says. So it goes beyond the man/woman thing with black men a lot of the times...
I often hear this stereotype from black men online, but rarely do they speak about the intelligent, gifted black girls and women, who want nothing to do with ANY thugs/criminals and idiots. I have NEVER had any interest in such males.
Quote:
I hang out with their families and even hear the men speak how men speak about women in their joking way and they are different than black men who will denigrate a black woman and think it is a joke in a heartbeat. They will do it in front of young black boys and those boys, like my husband grow up and do the same thing. As stated this has been a huge issue in our marriage as I am adamant that I don't want our son growing up with such moronic, sexist, misogynistic beliefs about black women. My husband has toned down this behavior a lot but I worry that the damage is done due to the way he spoke for the first 7 years of our son's life.
I've noticed this as well. I don't find other races of men specifically singling out the women in their group... more often than not, they will simply say "women" if they are making ANY disparaging remarks.
Recently, my mother stopped by her brother's home to assist him with his medical related illness. My mom informed me that when one of the black nurses did not show up for the home visit on-time, he stated, "that's why I hate black women..." I was taken a back (upon hearing this), because he is one of my favorite uncles, and I've never known him to espouse such views. Needless to say, after digesting his comment, I had to cut my ties. Whenever he calls, I simply let it go to my voicemail. My mom mentioned that she forgives him because he went through a bad divorce recently w/ his ex-wife, but I don't believe women should EVER condone or accept such abusive words.
And at the end of the day, I will say this...as we've recently seen in the last few days, many black men don't know what to do right now. I already brought Kendrick lamar being fried for saying he preferred "natural" women....then Tyrese is getting fried because talked about how women shouldn't "h0es"...lol...so two black men with platforms are saying they want natural women who aren't h0es...and it's all wrong, too. All the hatred for these lyrics and images from rap videos for all these years and now dudes are saying they want the opposite and people are like "do tell us what to do, we can be promiscuous and wear weave if we want"...it's frustrating and funny at the same time. But mostly confusing. This goes to the fact that black women aren't a monolith and speaking to one set of black women's issues can go badly so some men would rather just not say anything.
The issue was the bolded.
A lot of young "woke" black women don't want to be judged. Like whatever you like, but don't label what you like "good" and whatever you don't like "bad".
So if you like naturals, don't call women who like weaves names and talk trash about them. And vis versa.
If you like chaste women, like that without calling other women "hoes".
Young women are reacting to the heaping piles of judgement waiting for them behind every single move they make. Being a young woman today means no matter what you do, somebody is waiting to tell you it's wrong - and use that to justify treating you badly. "You can't keep a man because your hair is nappy/you are too dark/your attitude is bad/you are too stuck up like all you light skin beytches/you make too much money it's intimidating/you are a broke beytch/you are a prude/you are a hoe/on and on and on"
Kendrick go it because he didn't just say he liked naturals, he called other types of girls names. Ditto Tyrese. Plus for Kendrick, his version of the approved "natural" was just another mixed race girl with "good hair". There are of course beautiful mixed race girls with wavy hair and yay for them, but always putting that up as the standard is how you get so many black women with weaves in the first place. That's why he got the side eye LOL.
Just lose the judgment and you'll be fine. Like who you like and let other women do them without denigrating them.
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That's awesome. Honestly. My wife would be on board with that for sure. 
I love and respect women, to include my wife and my mother. I personally would not hang out with people that talked the way Trump did. "Locker room talk" my ass. Trump is a misogynistic pig.
