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lol, then why do socialist countries with free health care, paid vacations, subsidised apartments(there is no free cable, clothing, cars, food in socialism, but i know its a conservative value to lie) such as france and norway have higher work productivity then the us?
how will free health care cause a lazy society? some countires with free health care such as japan and s. korea work more hours per year than the USA, quit your right wing propaganda, i guess its socialist that the government provides free books, free education, free police, free figherfighters?
Just want to add my 2c worth about the believability of the above in the first paragraph. That is not how I have heard it, especially for France, but am open to being shown.
I'm interested in hearing opinions on this question.
I think america is struggling because basic needs such as health care have become out of reach to many americans. Stressed out people riddled with fear cannot maintain the US as the "best country in the world"
Wasn't this way. Only since we began insourcing tens of millions upon tens of millions of immigrants and outsourcing one sixth of blue collar manufacturing and white collar knowledge worker jobs enmasse has the current situation come about. The real estate bubble staved off the inevitable for awhile but that has finally popped as well.
Wasn't this way. Only since we began insourcing tens of millions upon tens of millions of immigrants and outsourcing one sixth of blue collar manufacturing and white collar knowledge worker jobs enmasse has the current situation come about. The real estate bubble staved off the inevitable for awhile but that has finally popped as well.
We have to deal with the reality of today. Right now people are struggling to get their health care needs met. This system isn't working, we need to make the changes that allow people to become insured.
To use myself as an example, I have a master's degree in a profession where the only way to earn a good income is to be self employed. I had my business in California, but due to a temporary(and minor in my doctor's opinion) health issue I was denied health insurance.
In the US being unable to obtain insurance means risking your entire financial future should you ever be sick or injured. I ended up giving up my business to take any job I could get that offered health insurance because under a group plan no one can be denied.
This country claims to support self employment and the small business, the US is supposed to the place where people can achieve success with hard work, I was more than willing to put in the work, my business was derailed by a law that protects rich insurance companies. In all but 3-4 states anyone can denied insurance for any reason, basically if you have ever used insurance in the past there is a strong possibility you will be denied.
Reform is desperately needed. I moved back to the state I grew up in and found out my state requires that BC offer plans for people who are denied, so I was able to buy insurance that goes into effect at midnight tonight. I'm in the process of starting up my business again, I plan to work hard, succeed and be a positive addition to the economy.
I did a lot of research into the self employed and insurance. I am far from alone. A reform that includes preventing insurance companies from denying people or charging 3x the normal rates would help a good number of the uninsured get coverage. We also need reforms to help the people who are too poor to afford the current rates, but not poor enough for the govt. plans and existing plans need to be changed so people who thought they were covered don't find themselves headed for bankruptcy.
We need to take some power from these companies and put it into the hands of the people. I don't think we need "free" insurance. People have to pay for heath care, but it shouldn't be a expensive luxury affordable to only the very well off which is where we are currently headed. I don't believe helping people makes them lazy or unmotivated. Taking steps to ensure that everyone in this country has health care will make us stronger. Right now we are supporting these money making giants AND our taxes are paying for the uninsured going to emergency rooms and medically related bankruptcies. I know I am not the only one who sees a problem here.
Can you post other statistics then. It doesn't appear that europeans, asians and others with UHC are a bunch of lazy people who get nothing done.
I'm support reforms that allow all americans to get their own insurance and I like HSAs, but we need major reform. the status quo in american health insurance is unacceptable.
I'll have to find the link but basically I think it said Norway produces a little more per hour but doesn't work nearly as many hours as we do in the U.S., overall we are number 1 in production.
I'll have to find the link but basically I think it said Norway produces a little more per hour but doesn't work nearly as many hours as we do in the U.S., overall we are number 1 in production.
I don't doubt that america is more productive than some countries in Europe, but I doubt it's by a tremendous amount. I don't think america is this major producer and europeans are lazy slugs because they have socialist ideas about health care and other quality of life factors. I find the opinion that if we help people they will lose all motivation questionable. If I'm shown convincing proof of this I will read and consider it, but it sounds like right wing propaganda.
I don't doubt that america is more productive than some countries in Europe, but I doubt it's by a tremendous amount. I don't think america is this major producer and europeans are lazy slugs because they have socialist ideas about health care and other quality of life factors. I find the opinion that if we help people they will lose all motivation questionable. If I'm shown convincing proof of this I will read and consider it, but it sounds like right wing propaganda.
strawman. [Giving everyone everything for free] "leads to a complete dulling of ambition" was the quote. Feel free to disagree; I'd enjoy reading your rebuttal.
And after reading the UK story above (dare I say fairytale). . . you'll never convince me that anyone, can get better healthcare for less cost if run by the gov't. If this were true, why stop at healthcare? Think of the possibilities; auto insurance, clothing, food. Everything cheaper and better if run by the gov't.
UHC is just another social program that arguably may provide better services for the less wealthy. It will not improve; in fact it will lower quality and raise cost for the majority of US middle class citizens. The wealthy will be unaffected.
I don't doubt that america is more productive than some countries in Europe, but I doubt it's by a tremendous amount. I don't think america is this major producer and europeans are lazy slugs because they have socialist ideas about health care and other quality of life factors. I find the opinion that if we help people they will lose all motivation questionable. If I'm shown convincing proof of this I will read and consider it, but it sounds like right wing propaganda.
I guess that depends on how you define a 'tremendous amount'
According to the report linked below:
"What’s more, the report also shows that the productivity gap between the US and most other developed economies continued to widen. The acceleration of productivity growth in the US has outpaced that of many other developed economies:"
strawman. [Giving everyone everything for free] "leads to a complete dulling of ambition" was the quote. Feel free to disagree; I'd enjoy reading your rebuttal.
And after reading the UK story above (dare I say fairytale). . . you'll never convince me that anyone, can get better healthcare for less cost if run by the gov't. If this were true, why stop at healthcare? Think of the possibilities; auto insurance, clothing, food. Everything cheaper and better if run by the gov't.
UHC is just another social program that arguably may provide better services for the less wealthy. It will not improve; in fact it will lower quality and raise cost for the majority of US middle class citizens. The wealthy will be unaffected.
I'm willing to read other peoples ideas, I asked for some sort of proof and it hasn't been provided so it's just an opinion, which everyone is entitled to, but we are not talking about giving everything for free. I personally haven't mentioned giving anything for free, I'm not even supporting UHC, I support reforms.
I have provided reasons why dental and vision are true health problems. People are losing their teeth to infections(a child died of one of these infections), heart disease can be caused or exacerbated by poor dental care, and people suffer accidents due to poor vision. People who disagree with me have chosen to ignore the health issues I mentioned, and focus on the fact I wrote about employment difficulties based on vision and dental problems.
I believe dental and vision care should be included as health care because of the issue mentioned above. Again, I am talking about reform, not UHC. I would like to get back to a health care discussion.
Last edited by detshen; 03-20-2008 at 11:40 AM..
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