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This mindset is everywhere - it was all over this forum soon after Trump won and after he took office. Right-wingers couldn't come up with any way to actually defend his win or his staggering incompetence and sleaze, so they just turned it into, "if he's hurting people I don't like, than he's doing the right thing for 'merica!"
The flaws with this stupid, grade-school level of reasoning should be obvious. For one thing, running a nation based on bigotry and "hurting people" is not a valid path of governance unless one like tyrants, pogroms, purges, and similar monstrous actions. It's even worse when the clown running the show and his cronies literally don't have any other valid plans of governance. It's not like they can really fix the economy AND "stick it to them thar gays" - because they are too incompetent to improve anything. It is very telling that almost nothing out of this administration so far is anything more than a bigoted or childish slap at people right-wingers hate. Muslims, the poor, the sick - the list just keeps going.
No, it's disgusting, and it's high time hate-voters were called out on their crap. Anyone who is horrible enough to vote for somebody because they hope he "hurts people I don't like" is not only a stupid, selfish, bigoted fool, he also knows nothing about history. Once you give people in power the ability to harm unpopular citizens - and be cheered on for it - you open the door to ALL citizens being vulnerable to random acts of violence and cruelty.
The irony is stunning. The far-right loves to wave the flag and spout off about freedom, guns, and protecting 'merica from the evil government - but they so badly want a government strong enough to choke the life out of everyone they don't like... and they are too stupid to realize that they are next on the list. That is how such things ALWAYS happen in history.
Yes, as a Goldwater guy there is much to dislike about Trump. Goldwater emphasized free men, free markets and free trade. His protegee Ronald Reagan expanded Goldwater's base with social conservatives. Sort of a neccesary deal with the devil.
Trump's natural base is Paleo-conservatives and social conservatives versus conservatives that lean libertarian.
Let us face the facts though that in my opinion and the opinion of millions of others Trump, with all his flaws, is still better than any Democrat. This is mainly due to the USSC, both the first two amendments were all but certain to be weakened by a liberal supreme court.
Did you know Vladimir Lenin was in exile prior to the Russian Revolution. He was in German held territory actually. And he was known, even then, for his radical leftists views. He was a revolutionary. But he was broke, like many revolutionaries. He saw his motherland was in a state of weakness, but couldn't get back on his own. But he did. Do you know how? Well, a German general by the name of Erich Ludendorff sent him. The reason: the Americans were on their way.
See, the Russian army was occupying part of the German army's time. Ludendorff felt that sending in a revolutionary would accelerate the speed at which the Czarist government would collapse, ending the war with Russia so the Western front would be prepared with more troops when the Americans finally got there. And it kind of worked. Unfortunately, Lenin was so damn inspiring that Bolshevism became popular outside of Russia... like in Germany. The unrest in the German empire ended up doing more harm than good, accelerating the German defeat at the hands of the allies. This soft sport for leftist totalitarianism may have even paved the way for another form of totalitarianism that caused an even bigger war.
Ludendorff had an understanding with Lenin. How could his happen? Well, if you light a fire in your neighbors apartment, it will almost certainly burn it down. But he's your neighbor. The fire might work a little too well. But hey, Ludendorff was making a necessary deal with the devil...
I normally don't take much stock in opinion pieces, but this one was really well-written and gets at the core of a lot of the weird rhetoric from some people in conservative circles that I've come across over the ~2 years (and especially since Trump's presidency began).
This does feel like a major contributing factor in the breakdown in communication I've had with some people re: Trump.
I personally love discussing politics with conservative people (often because I find it fascinating to understand their perspectives, and want to find middle grounds on various matters) - but this movement feels very different to me. I feel like I can't have a rational conversation with people that subscribe to this mindset. As the article finishes with:
Everything you posted is correct. I don't disagree with any of it. But what amazes me, is how Liberals point these things out so sanctimoniously as if they aren't guilty of the same exact thing. Simply amazing they don't see it.
I normally don't take much stock in opinion pieces, but this one was really well-written and gets at the core of a lot of the weird rhetoric from some people in conservative circles that I've come across over the ~2 years (and especially since Trump's presidency began).
This does feel like a major contributing factor in the breakdown in communication I've had with some people re: Trump.
I personally love discussing politics with conservative people (often because I find it fascinating to understand their perspectives, and want to find middle grounds on various matters) - but this movement feels very different to me. I feel like I can't have a rational conversation with people that subscribe to this mindset. As the article finishes with:
WHO was under the impression Trump was a conservative? I voted for the man BECAUSE he was NOT a conservative! Because he at one time praised universal health care,because he spoke of AMERICA first not foreign nations,because he was for FAIR trade not FREE trade....NO "conservative" talks about the things he does they are all a bunch of jokes,they lie to get elected. Trump has done EXACTLY what he said he was going to do and man has it been a wonderful change!
Everything you posted is correct. I don't disagree with any of it. But what amazes me, is how Liberals point these things out so sanctimoniously as if they aren't guilty of the same exact thing. Simply amazing they don't see it.
Sure - some are. Totally agree. But I also don't subscribe to the "two wrongs make a right" belief.
And this rhetoric feels more prominent than it ever has from fringe people on the left. Nor have we ever had a president that subscribed to this kind of thinking (to my knowledge).
WHO was under the impression Trump was a conservative? I voted for the man BECAUSE he was NOT a conservative! Because he at one time praised universal health care,because he spoke of AMERICA first not foreign nations,because he was for FAIR trade not FREE trade....NO "conservative" talks about the things he does they are all a bunch of jokes,they lie to get elected. Trump has done EXACTLY what he said he was going to do and man has it been a wonderful change!
Right - but he did run as a Republican. So, one would expect he would be a "conservative", yes?
Then again, the Republican party, and conservatism in general, is certainly changing.
The media is actually a bigger propaganda mouthpiece for the International Banking Families that rule the world through currency control than any political figure.
So while Trump is a statist stooge there is something in this paradigm that has the true powers that be upset hence the non-stop derangement against him in the controlled media.
I don't know exactly what it is and I doubt, highly doubt, it's enough to end the stranglehold the IBF has over all of us but it's entertaining which is at least something.
I mean - you're likely not wrong there. But I don't see how Trump is getting us there. By any way. Not when his administration is full of those exact people.
Sure - some are. Totally agree. But I also don't subscribe to the "two wrongs make a right" belief.
.
Point is, if you're going to point out a problem, as the NYT is, then be honest about the nature of the problem, otherwise it's just hypocrisy. Even you're own thread title describes this as a "movement on the right"... That's disingenuous to say the least. Both sides are equally guilty of everything described in that article. That doesn't make it ok, but it's objectively true.
Anyway, I read the whole thing. It was excellent and absolutely spot on, except for the fact that whoever authored it attempted to leave the impression that this is characteristic of the political right rather than being honest and admitting that it's a problem on both sides.
Signed,
A Conservative who voted for Trump.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 05-12-2017 at 05:35 PM..
Point is, if you're going to point out a problem, as the NYT is, then be honest about the nature of the problem, otherwise it's just hypocrisy. Even you're own thread title describes this as a "movement on the right"... That's disingenuous to say the least. Both sides are equally guilty of everything described in that article. That doesn't make it ok, but it's objectively true.
Anyway, I read the whole thing. It was excellent and absolutely spot on, except for the fact that it implied this is characteristic of the right rather than both sides.
Signed,
A Conservative who voted for Trump.
It's in the thread title because that's what this is about: anti-anti-Trumpism.
And, like I said above, I've never seen this on the left (or on the right in the past) to the extent that we're seeing it now from some Trump supporters. I find that to be a false equivalency - they do not feel the same to me. Obama supporters were not like this. Nor were Bush or Clinton supporters.
This feels like an entirely new paradigm to me. And the President is helping embolden the movement by subscribing to this kind of fringe/conspiracy thinking himself. It feels VERY unique.
Sure, some liberals might be to blame for helping create the environment for this movement to exist/thrive in. And I agree there are a whole set of issues that people on the left need to address - some of which are related to this. You're totally right in that regard.
But that doesn't make this movement any better. I realize you're agreeing with me, here, too (in case it's not clear...it might not be).
This mindset is everywhere - it was all over this forum soon after Trump won and after he took office. Right-wingers couldn't come up with any way to actually defend his win or his staggering incompetence and sleaze, so they just turned it into, "if he's hurting people I don't like, than he's doing the right thing for 'merica!"
The flaws with this stupid, grade-school level of reasoning should be obvious. For one thing, running a nation based on bigotry and "hurting people" is not a valid path of governance unless one like tyrants, pogroms, purges, and similar monstrous actions. It's even worse when the clown running the show and his cronies literally don't have any other valid plans of governance. It's not like they can really fix the economy AND "stick it to them thar gays" - because they are too incompetent to improve anything. It is very telling that almost nothing out of this administration so far is anything more than a bigoted or childish slap at people right-wingers hate. Muslims, the poor, the sick - the list just keeps going.
No, it's disgusting, and it's high time hate-voters were called out on their crap. Anyone who is horrible enough to vote for somebody because they hope he "hurts people I don't like" is not only a stupid, selfish, bigoted fool, he also knows nothing about history. Once you give people in power the ability to harm unpopular citizens - and be cheered on for it - you open the door to ALL citizens being vulnerable to random acts of violence and cruelty.
The irony is stunning. The far-right loves to wave the flag and spout off about freedom, guns, and protecting 'merica from the evil government - but they so badly want a government strong enough to choke the life out of everyone they don't like... and they are too stupid to realize that they are next on the list. That is how such things ALWAYS happen in history.
Excellent post.
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