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if you are slaughtering people by the thousands, why don't you just tell your group of mass murderers that you are no longer interested in being involved? A great first step would be to set down your weaponry and count to ten. Tell yourself that you've doled out enough death. I recall reading some psychology journal somewhere which stated that once a killer has taken a hundred or so lives, he/she loses whatever motivation he/she had to take the lives of others. If nothing else, perhaps you will hit that wall at some point. Good luck in kicking the habit.
I have told them......as you can read.....many others refuse to.
Looks like a call for violence. It might be just a poor choice of words but people are more comfortable with that nowadays.
In this day and age we have politicians body-slamming journalists and calling for killing. This is a dismaying change in our nation.
I don't think there's anything wrong with what he said. If all the terrorists were dead, it would be a much nicer world to live in. I don't want to live next door to a terrorist, do you?
I don't think there's anything wrong with what he said. If all the terrorists were dead, it would be a much nicer world to live in. I don't want to live next door to a terrorist, do you?
You do understand that you can never kill "all the terrorists", right?
There will always be people who want to change the world to suit their own inclinations, and some of those people will be willing to use violence against innocents to achieve their goals. When civilized people resort to violence to change the world to suit their own inclinations, they become the terrorists. Moreover, they fuel the violence, to ever higher levels.
We let over 20 children get massacred in a elementary school (Sandy Hook)but Republicans didn't want to admit current gun policy in this country is a failure. And these type of killings are far more common than terrorism in this country.
And should we ban rental trucks and knives too? LOL
Guns protect people from home invasion robbers.
I'm glad to hear that but still Trump said it and was elected.
An occurrence for which you and I appear to share an equal amount of blame (none).
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Originally Posted by pknopp
I stated the relevance, I'm sorry you missed it. Propaganda can be a strong tool.
I didn't miss the reference of course, I simply missed the relevance. I wasn't arguing in terms of propaganda, but rather with contemporary and factual events under a specific context.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Nobody is doing anything "en masse". This is always thrown in there to try and diminish the argument. There have been many people killed by those who say that they were carrying out the will of God.
People are absolutely doing the aforementioned things en masse which is precisely why new accounts of these acts can be found in predictable geographic locations on a regular basis. In contrast, people of Judeo-Christian persuasions are (thankfully) not blowing up abortion clinics with anything resembling regularity in Western societies. This is in large part because in contrast with Islam, Judaism and Christianity have reformed due to centuries of repeated clashes with modernity (and the secular progress of morality and science in general).
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Why does the motive make the difference?
Within the context of this conversation the difference is paramount. Steven Weinberg rightly observed that good and bad people will do their best and worst respectively, but if you want otherwise good people to commit wicked acts, it takes either religion or some other form of dogma that's equally compelling.
People tend to do extraordinary things (be they good or bad) when they're of the belief that doing or not doing such things will result in an eternity of conscious torment in fire. The devotees of the major monotheisms assure us of this ad nauseam through their words and actions, and it requires considerable mental gymnastics to pretend this isn't the case.
Any behavior that is subsidized tends to increase the degree to which that behavior is then observed. When you have a large portion of people believing their faith compels them to do certain things, you can expect to see more of it.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
There have been no shortage of women who had acid thrown on them by jealous boyfriends.
Not in western societies and not because the women were seeking equal access to education.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Stoning was originally a Jewish practice. Is this idea outdated and not acceptable? Indeed but the answer is education, not war.
And as I mentioned above, Judaism's recurring clashes with modernity (education) have made such a barbaric practice all but universally untenable over the past some-odd thousand years. I agree that in principle this is what should happen with Islam, but clearly (in deference to decades worth of polling data) this result is not forthcoming.
If you're opposed to modern society foisting this upon these people (a position I may agree with you on), then you at least have to acknowledge that it's not a pragmatic solution to bring these same folks by the droves into our communities with the expectation that they're all going to peacefully assimilate. The ones who can be adequately vetted and who demonstrate their willingness to embrace our values and laws are welcome, but that must be the objective limitation placed on their immigration -- and any immigration to our shores for that matter.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
"Under the protection of............." always these ways to wiggle out. Human trafficking is a problem in all walks and beliefs in life. Yes, it is a problem here in the good old United States also.
My statement had nothing to do with "wiggling," and such an accusation seems to be a defensive assertion on your part in recognition of your apples-to-oranges conclusion. Human trafficking is indeed a problem here in the United States, but it's illegal, it's proactively punished (and harshly) when it's uncovered, and it is condemned by virtually everyone in this society who is not participating in it.
This is not the case in many of the countries you appear to be seeking to defend, where it is frequently overlooked (at best), commonplace, and culturally integrated within the context of overarching adherence to doctrine.
Last edited by OpinionInOcala; 06-09-2017 at 04:22 PM..
I didn't miss the reference of course, I simply missed the relevance. I wasn't arguing in terms of propaganda, but rather with contemporary and factual events under a specific context.
Much of it propaganda. Many of the video's we see are obvious fakes.
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People are absolutely doing the aforementioned things en masse which is precisely why new accounts of these acts can be found in predictable geographic locations on a regular basis. In contrast, people of Judeo-Christian persuasions are (thankfully) not blowing up abortion clinics with anything resembling regularity in Western societies. This is in large part because in contrast with Islam, Judaism and Christianity have reformed due to centuries of repeated clashes with modernity (and the secular progress of morality and science in general).
We kill each other by the thousands every year.
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Within the context of this conversation the difference is paramount. Steven Weinberg rightly observed that good and bad people will do their best and worst respectively, but if you want otherwise good people to commit wicked acts, it takes either religion or some other form of dogma that's equally compelling.
That's not saying anything......all that is saying is it takes religion or something else.
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People tend to do extraordinary things (be they good or bad) when they're of the belief that doing or not doing such things will result in an eternity of conscious torment in fire. The devotees of the major monotheisms assure us of this ad nauseam through their words and actions, and it requires considerable mental gymnastics to pretend this isn't the case.
Millions were killed in China and Russia for power and control. No afterlife considerations.
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Any behavior that is subsidized tends to increase the degree to which that behavior is then observed. When you have a large portion of people believing their faith compels them to do certain things, you can expect to see more of it.
Like approving wars and then not caring when we start news wars with no approval from anyone and few caring?
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Not in western societies and not because the women were seeking equal access to education.
Motives are not important to those harmed. Harmed is harmed.
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And as I mentioned above, Judaism's recurring clashes with modernity (education) have made such a barbaric practice all but universally untenable over the past some-odd thousand years. I agree that in principle this is what should happen with Islam, but clearly (in deference to decades worth of polling data) this result is not forthcoming.
Yes, we no longer stone people, we just stick a needle in their arm. Dead is dead.
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If you're opposed to modern society foisting this upon these people (a position I may agree with you on), then you at least have to acknowledge that it's not a pragmatic solution to bring these same folks by the droves into our communities with the expectation that they're all going to peacefully assimilate. The ones who can be adequately vetted and who demonstrate their willingness to embrace our values and laws are welcome, but that must be the objective limitation placed on their immigration -- and any immigration to our shores for that matter.
My position is, quit destroying their homes, their livelyhoods and they have no reason to come here.
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My statement had nothing to do with "wiggling," and such an accusation seems to be a defensive assertion on your part in recognition of your apples-to-oranges conclusion. Human trafficking is indeed a problem here in the United States, but it's illegal, it's proactively punished (and harshly) when it's uncovered, and it is condemned by virtually everyone in this society who is not participating in it.
This is not the case in many of the countries you appear to be seeking to defend, where it is frequently overlooked (at best), commonplace, and culturally integrated within the context of overarching adherence to doctrine.
Slavery is still practiced in many areas. We sometimes call it community service.
Much of it propaganda. Many of the video's we see are obvious fakes.
I didn't limit my response to videos. Your suggestion here sounds either like Trump-esque conspiracy or you simply need to rethink your sources.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
We kill each other by the thousands every year.
A vacuous statement without context.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
That's not saying anything......all that is saying is it takes religion or something else.
It says a lot actually. Notably that investing attention on an absence of evidence and reason produce undesirable results with respect to the well-being of others.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Millions were killed in China and Russia for power and control. No afterlife considerations.
I've already stipulated that afterlife considerations weren't required. It's lack of education and a failure to care about the well-being and suffering of others that produces these results.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Like approving wars and then not caring when we start news wars with no approval from anyone and few caring?
Sure, I'd probably agree with you the overwhelming majority of the time if you rail against the military industrial complex. It clearly makes things worse more often than not.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Motives are not important to those harmed. Harmed is harmed.
And yet the lion's share of victims ask "why me."
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Yes, we no longer stone people, we just stick a needle in their arm. Dead is dead.
No, this is a false equivalency for the purposes of this discussion.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
My position is, quit destroying their homes, their livelyhoods and they have no reason to come here.
Overly broad, but reasonable in principle.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Slavery is still practiced in many areas. We sometimes call it community service.
Community service has nothing to do with a culture or government's tacit approval for pedophilia or sexual slavery. You're attempting to move the goalpost here in a radically disingenuous fashion.
Your complaint is with your perceived motives. Dead is dead. Disfigured is disfigured.
We tortured individuals and our president said he would do it again. We've thrown people in prison to be forget about with absolutely no charges filed or access to legal representation.
We've killed thousands of innocent men, women and children. Are they less dead because they were blown to bits as opposed to decapitated?
They do not have trillions to spend on the best military equipment available so they will retaliate in the ways they can. I've noted many times that the British considered us as terrorists during the Revolutionary war because we fought in a different manner than was acceptable at the time. We hid behind tree's. They found that less than honorable.
Why are we killing people in Syria? What did they do to us?
You are always making justifications for the terrorists
And jump from country to country
Now you are talking about Syria
I want to ask you who destroyed Syria
The answer that you do not want to know
Is that Syria has destroyed the Islamists
I was in Syria for seven years
Syria was one of the most beautiful countries in the world
Her boss did not differentiate between citizens
But the events changed and the Islamists started with silly arguments and started from Daraa and Aleppo
The problem in Syria is the Islamists
But America did not intervene directly in the conflict
It is now intervening to protect Syrian civilians
And intervene for the benefit of the Syrian people as well
For your information, those who finance Muslim terrorists in Syria are three countries
Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey also because they have a border with Syria and have ambitions in it
Today Turkey behaves and the Ottoman caliphate returned again
Turkey dreams of the return of the Ottoman caliphate
The evidence is that Turkey is intervening in Iraq to protect Turkmen in Kirkuk and Tal Afar
Turkey has not intervened to protect the massacres and displacement that happened to Christians in Iraq, but they are intervening to protect a Turkmen minority
And also interfere in the sovereignty of Iraq also, especially in the issue of the Kurdish referendum on independence and trying to prevent it
So Muslims in Syria should thank America for intervening to protect them from the evil of the Islamic state
It is regrettable that many of the Syrian immigrants after the events belong to armed groups and participated in the terrorist operations
Especially the burning of churches in Homs and Aleppo
It is your duty, dear friend, to thank the United States for taking part in freeing it from the evil of the Islamists
And return Syria to its normal life
Much of it propaganda. Many of the video's we see are obvious fakes.
We kill each other by the thousands every year.
That's not saying anything......all that is saying is it takes religion or something else.
Millions were killed in China and Russia for power and control. No afterlife considerations.
Like approving wars and then not caring when we start news wars with no approval from anyone and few caring?
Motives are not important to those harmed. Harmed is harmed.
Yes, we no longer stone people, we just stick a needle in their arm. Dead is dead.
My position is, quit destroying their homes, their livelyhoods and they have no reason to come here.
Slavery is still practiced in many areas. We sometimes call it community service.
You are wrong in your sick reactions
Christianity is valid and does not need reform
Because its texts call for peace and love
While Islam can not be reformed because its texts call for fighting and hatred
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