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Of course no one should work for minimum wage for an extended period of time, you right-wingers missed the point, didn't read, or both
The point is no one can survive on such low wages, anyone can clearly see this when doing some simple math as demonstrated earlier. Unless math, 2+2=4 is wrong too? We don't live in a perfect world, we can't round up all the poor and shoot them or "just get rid of them", there are large swathes of the population (many many millions) trying to survive on those low wages in 2017.
Just to re-iterate, we are not in the 1950's anymore.
Well, if they just can't or refuse to better their situations, then they can't live like the rest of the people who did better their situations. They will have to make decisions and sacrifices to survive. It's just the way it is.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,615,202 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
Then you shouldn't support the minimum wage law because it's mathematically and morally wrong.
I do support minimum wage law, and for two reasons. One, businesses that pay low wages keep labor to 20% or less of their daily operating budget. A lot of these places have computers that figure their revenue versus labor ratio every couple minutes to stop them from going over 20%. So, for example if you raised minimum wage 20%, if the business wanted to keep the same margin, they would only have to raise prices 4%(20% of 20%). That is math for you.
And two, better paid workers are less likely to turn to crime to offset living costs and will need fewer government benefits
I do support minimum wage law, and for two reasons. One, businesses that pay low wages keep labor to 20% or less of their daily operating budget. A lot of these places have computers that figure their revenue versus labor ratio every couple minutes to stop them from going over 20%. So, for example if you raised minimum wage 20%, if the business wanted to keep the same margin, they would only have to raise prices 4%(20% of 20%). That is math for you.
And two, better paid workers are less likely to turn to crime to offset living costs and will need fewer government benefits
No they don't. They don't "argue against mathematics" - they agree with it, what they disagree with, is that things should be run somehow differently.
See, it's a matter of beliefs, the religion if you wish, which goes way back to the early history of mankind. There should be the rich and there should be the poor, and only those that make themselves valuable for the rich deserve the nod. No one and nothing can prove them that things should be run differently; it's the same deep-seated system of beliefs as I've said, as in the same manner no one can prove a devout Muslim that there are flaws in his religion.
In other words, they are of the "Serfdom mentality" as was their ancestry who first came here? I actually have written and addressed that discussion before, and they scamper away each time. Their worship of the wealthy is so ingrained until nothing can change them to think in other ways. They actually go crazy if someone outlined that no CEO is worth 354 time more per hour than the average employee. As with Trump they cheered at him cheating the IRS, even after he used more government resources than any other citizen.
But when it comes to CEO's ..... Absolutely "nothing", is worth that pay. A company does not close and shut down because a CEO gets fired or goes away, but 'try to get rid of the employees" and then there is no one to do the work, the company will close. I personally would never give a CEO massive millions, and stock options and Golden Parachute. (there is no logical or other reason to do so) If they want stock, buy it like any other employee, and the CEO would get the exact same benefit package other employee's get. If they don't like it, then go work some other place. Guarantee, the jobs would not suffer from lack of people willing to respectfully do the job, for a good living with a respectful salary. At the very max, the X times they earn above employee certainly would not be xxx times more.
I can't even understand why shareholders even sit around and allow this craziness, but most of them are in it for the quick spin, and they are not longer term investors for the premise the markets were first designed serve. I would not take a company public, if I needed to raise capital, I would first do employee investment programs, that have short term bonds, that can be settled within 3-5 yrs. or I'd used short term bonds with absolutely no rights to influence the direction of the company. But at no time would a stock traders get to play their fiction games, and no borrowing would be based on any stock ticker fiction.
This is in respect of the business, the employees and the customers and certainly myself as the business owner. If the business expands, its because the market can handle it, and the demand is there.
But today, as was before... we are not that far removed from the influx of people from Autocratic and Monarchical societies from all across the European Continent. and many of them came here and wanted to install for themselves, the same thing they left, except they wanted to make themselves the new royalty, based on who's got money.
When the fact of Monarchs long ago, were established, as leaders for the protections of the people, and wealthy was the means to assured that protections of the society of social community.
People came here and they only saw the external trimming before they got here, and they'd made everything about "money", to the point, they instituted slavery, indenture and now in this day and age, they want to create a mass of SERF's and indentured them and cast them into levels of "destitution". while some stand back and "grandstand about how they made it".
No body makes anything of wealth without the activities of other people. Period!!! Their idiotic phrases of " I pulled myself by my boot straps", as I said, before, "go try it" and all you get is falling on your face while tugging at the straps on ones boot, or maybe flipped over and falling on their arse. That's who stupid that kind of phrase and thinking is. The problem in American is people are on some "get rich quick scheme", they no longer thing to build market-shares, stability, maintain stability over the long term, managed growth and their business will provide them a good life and a good life for those whom they employ. Instead, people "get greedy", many have sold their business only to see it destroyed by the investors, who may even kick them out of their own company, in the chase for greed.
I can go to one of the black communities "you buy we fry fish places', they are not going to get rich quick and they know it, so they provide a quality product and personal human person to do the service, they make a living, and many of them have more people working than some of the chain eateries. The same is true for some of the "soul food eateries", and their food is far better than most any big name corporate chain that sells bland food and artificial ingredients. I sometimes see more older white people as much as I see black people, because they want "good food" that is hand cooked. They don't have fancy decor, but the people are gracious, and some have way more people working than they might actually just desperately need. The owners have nice homes and nice car but they are not trying to buy a mansion with 10 bathrooms, they are not trying to over expand and have over-saturation and in 5 yrs everything falls down.
Many of these places have long histories of staying in business, even across generations, and still they don't chase being rich, they work to maintain a good business, that provides them a comfortable lifestyle and they provide jobs for people in the community.
I've seen numerous overly decor'ed facilities, with expensive stones and expensive everything, not last a year after opening, some come in with overpriced food, that results to give you absolutely nothing for your money, and first people spend their money, but often the plates are left with much of the stuff they served still on it. That's and indicator that customer won't be coming back.
American is sadly a land where Greed has gone crazy, now between Vanity and Greed, nothing else matters and people are AGAIN "used and abused" by the same mentalities sets, that once embraced slavery, only now, they pay low wages and count on the government to provide for their employees, what they should pay them so the employee can provide for themselves. Often times its the same business owners crying about taxes, when it is THEM who is sending their own employees to the government office to get their needs met after having put in 8hrs a day of work, so the owner of the establishment can play the "i'm rich game"... These business owners are the greatest fleecers of the Government and the least likely ones willing to pay their share of taxes.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 07-06-2017 at 11:43 AM..
It's funny that Lefties think businesses should just pay more for labor so employees can have a better lifestyle, but just love them some cheap crap from China where they pay those slaves wages not even an Ethiopian could live on. Why don't Lefties promote paying over twice the amount for a product so that businesses can pay better and they won't be supporting slave shops? The Left wants it both ways. Cheap payouts FOR THEM, but the burden of higher payouts for businesses. What they ALL seem to fail, at the 2nd grade level I might add, is that the prices for products would go up and now the buying power of those few dollars gained is gone and EVERYONE suffers instead of the unproductive only. That's the thing about their ideology (Socialism), it makes EVERYONE equally broke.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,615,202 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
I thought you knew math. I stand corrected.
I showed my work, a 20% rise in labor cost would not equal a 20% rise in total cost, because the other 80% of the businesses cost would not be affected by a 20% rise in the minimum wage, so it would only be a 4% increase in total cost. Tell me where I'm wrong, since you seem to think I am......
In other words, they are of the "Serfdom mentality" as was their ancestry who first came here? I actually have written and addressed that discussion before, and the cower down and scamper away each time. Their worship of the wealthy is so ingrained until nothing can change them to think in other ways. They actually go crazy if someone outlined that no CEO is worth 354 time more per hour than the average employee.
Absolutely "nothing", a company does not close and shut down because a CEO gets fired or goes away, but 'try to get rid of the employees" and then there is no one to do the work, the company will close.
We are not that far removed from the influx of people from Autocratic and Monarchical societies from all across the European Continent. and many of them came here and wanted to install for themselves, the same thing they left, except they wanted to make themselves the new royalty, based on who's got money.
When the fact of Monarchs long ago, were established, as leaders for the protections of the people, and wealthy was the means to assured that protections of the society of social community.
People came here and they only saw the external trimming before they got here, and they'd made everything about "money", to the point, they instituted slavery, indenture and now in this day and age, they want to create a mass of SERF's and indentured them and cast them into levels of "destitution". while some stand back and "grandstand about how they made it".
No body makes anything of wealth without the activities of other people. Period!!! Their idiotic phrases of " I pulled myself by my boot straps", as I said, before, "go try it" and all you get is falling on your face while tugging at the straps on ones boot, or maybe flipped over and falling on their arse. That's who stupid that kind of phrase and thinking is. The problem in American is people are on some "get rich quick scheme", they no longer thing to build market-shares, stability, maintain stability over the long term, managed growth and their business will provide them a good life and a good life for those whom they employ. Instead, people "get greedy", many have sold their business only to see it destroyed by the investors, who may even kick them out of their own company, in the chase for greed.
I've seen numerous overly decor'ed facilities, with expensive stones and expensive everything, not last a year after opening, some come in with overpriced food, that results to give you absolutely nothing for your money, and first people spend their money, but often the plates are left with much of the stuff they served still on it. That's and indicator that customer won't be coming back.
American is sadly a land where Greed has gone crazy, now between Vanity and Greed, nothing else matters and people are AGAIN "used and abused" by the same mentalities sets, that once embraced slavery, only now, they pay low wages and count on the government to provide for their employees, what they should pay them so the employee can provide for themselves. Often times its the same business owners crying about taxes, when it is THEM who is sending their own employees to the government office to get their needs met after having put in 8hrs a day of work, so the owner of the establishment can play the "i'm rich game"... These business owners are the greatest fleecers of the Government and the least likely ones willing to pay their share of taxes.
There are many Socialist countries you can move to if you really hate it that much here. Oh, that's right, they won't let you in, they have enough moochers already and need producers instead.
I showed my work, a 20% rise in labor cost would not equal a 20% rise in total cost, because the other 80% of the businesses cost would not be affected by a 20% rise in the minimum wage, so it would only be a 4% increase in total cost. Tell me where I'm wrong, since you seem to think I am......
You're definitely wrong. In order for things to remain equal for the employer, it would have to be a 1-1 ratio. So yes, 20% increase in total cost is what would be needed. In your figures they would be losing 16% of that 20% cost in labor if they only raised it 4%. In other words, if the increased labor costs were an extra 20% of total operating costs, then another 20% of total operating costs would have to made up somewhere else in order for there to be no change in operating costs. I have no idea who taught you math, but you need a refresher.
I showed my work, a 20% rise in labor cost would not equal a 20% rise in total cost, because the other 80% of the businesses cost would not be affected by a 20% rise in the minimum wage, so it would only be a 4% increase in total cost. Tell me where I'm wrong, since you seem to think I am......
In other words, they are of the "Serfdom mentality" as was their ancestry who first came here? I actually have written and addressed that discussion before, and the cower down and scamper away each time. Their worship of the wealthy is so ingrained until nothing can change them to think in other ways. They actually go crazy if someone outlined that no CEO is worth 354 time more per hour than the average employee.
Absolutely "nothing", a company does not close and shut down because a CEO gets fired or goes away, but 'try to get rid of the employees" and then there is no one to do the work, the company will close.
We are not that far removed from the influx of people from Autocratic and Monarchical societies from all across the European Continent. and many of them came here and wanted to install for themselves, the same thing they left, except they wanted to make themselves the new royalty, based on who's got money.
When the fact of Monarchs long ago, were established, as leaders for the protections of the people, and wealthy was the means to assured that protections of the society of social community.
People came here and they only saw the external trimming before they got here, and they'd made everything about "money", to the point, they instituted slavery, indenture and now in this day and age, they want to create a mass of SERF's and indentured them and cast them into levels of "destitution". while some stand back and "grandstand about how they made it".
No body makes anything of wealth without the activities of other people. Period!!! Their idiotic phrases of " I pulled myself by my boot straps", as I said, before, "go try it" and all you get is falling on your face while tugging at the straps on ones boot, or maybe flipped over and falling on their arse. That's who stupid that kind of phrase and thinking is. The problem in American is people are on some "get rich quick scheme", they no longer thing to build market-shares, stability, maintain stability over the long term, managed growth and their business will provide them a good life and a good life for those whom they employ. Instead, people "get greedy", many have sold their business only to see it destroyed by the investors, who may even kick them out of their own company, in the chase for greed.
I've seen numerous overly decor'ed facilities, with expensive stones and expensive everything, not last a year after opening, some come in with overpriced food, that results to give you absolutely nothing for your money, and first people spend their money, but often the plates are left with much of the stuff they served still on it. That's and indicator that customer won't be coming back.
American is sadly a land where Greed has gone crazy, now between Vanity and Greed, nothing else matters and people are AGAIN "used and abused" by the same mentalities sets, that once embraced slavery, only now, they pay low wages and count on the government to provide for their employees, what they should pay them so the employee can provide for themselves. Often times its the same business owners crying about taxes, when it is THEM who is sending their own employees to the government office to get their needs met after having put in 8hrs a day of work, so the owner of the establishment can play the "i'm rich game"... These business owners are the greatest fleecers of the Government and the least likely ones willing to pay their share of taxes.
CEOs are paid at the fair market rate voluntarily while minimum wage workers are paid at ABOVE fair market rate by forcing the people at gunpoint.
Try again please.
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