Are you PROUD of who you are? (parade, holidays, nationalist)
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I think you missed my point. You could have been born somewhere else and be a lot less fortunate. You exist among the top of the top in the world, by virtue of being born as you are. Accept it and be thankful for it.
I don't believe in the accident of birth argument. My birth was planned by two white people and deliberate. Who else could I have been born as other than a white person? Other than myself? We could discuss reincarnation if you wish...there's some wiggle room in there. I think that would take us off topic though.
I'm happy to be a Midwesterner, happy I'm an American, happy I'm white, but proud about those things? I don't get it.
While I appreciate your George Carlin view on pride. We need to first define what pride or proud means. In most cases, pride is used interchangeably with the word happy, or good.
Furthermore, when someone says they are proud of being Irish, it is more about being proud of their ancestors. If a Native-American says he is proud of being a Native-American, he likely goes to pow-wows, and he might even be trying to sustain his ancestor's culture/language/traditions/etc. With the implicit declaration that those ancestral "ways of life" are good, noble, etc.
Thus, having pride in one's ancestry, is to a great degree, to show respect to one's ancestors. To not have pride in one's ancestry, is to a great degree, to shun/disparage/condemn one's ancestors(and everything associated with them).
Those who do not have pride in who they are, die out. Those who have pride in who they are, live. Look around the world.
If I think a Mustang is better than a Camaro, it doesn't automatically translate into the belief that everyone who owns a Camaro is beneath me, or that everyone who owns a Camaro is stupid. I am allowed to think my house is the best house on the block. I am allowed to believe that my kids are the best in the world. I am allowed to believe that Christianity is better than Islam. And an atheist is allowed to believe that atheism is superior to Christianity.
Just because you believe your individual qualities or values are superior to others, it doesn't automatically translate into a belief that they are beneath you. And if that is true, we should remove the words better and best entirely from the dictionary, because they are offensive and evil.
Obviously that is literally retarded, grow up.
Just because I believe my wife is the most-beautiful woman in the world, doesn't make it true. Nor does the belief in my wife's superiority, mean I am disparaging all other women. It could simply be that I love my wife.
Your analogy is flawed. If you think a Mustang is better than a Camaro, then you certainly do think the Camaro is beneath the Mustang because of some of its capabilities. Otherwise what's "better" about it? The car is the subject in your statement, not the people who own it/buy it/drive it/sell it/whatever.
I didn't say anything about evil or offensive; those value judgments came from you. Nothing offensive about saying one thing is better than another; I just know what that means. The word "better" inherently means the things being compared to are inferior. If you need to insult people just to prove your point (telling them to grow up), then you're the one who needs to grow up buddy.
You don't literally believe your wife is the most beautiful woman in the world; your saying that, like you mentioned, is just a statement generally meant to convey love about her. Sure, I can shout (and I do) my alma mater is #1 at all the games, but do I LITERALLY believe it is the best school in the entire world, and no other is better? No. Those statements are not taken literally.
Last edited by BicoastalAnn; 08-13-2017 at 12:31 PM..
While I appreciate your George Carlin view on pride. We need to first define what pride or proud means. In most cases, pride is used interchangeably with the word happy, or good.
Furthermore, when someone says they are proud of being Irish, it is more about being proud of their ancestors. If a Native-American says he is proud of being a Native-American, he likely goes to pow-wows, and he might even be trying to sustain his ancestor's culture/language/traditions/etc. With the implicit declaration that those ancestral "ways of life" are good, noble, etc.
Thus, having pride in one's ancestry, is to a great degree, to show respect to one's ancestors. To not have pride in one's ancestry, is to a great degree, to shun/disparage/condemn one's ancestors(and everything associated with them).
Those who do not have pride in who they are, die out. Those who have pride in who they are, live. Look around the world.
I am very proud of my ancestors, and that's how I present it: pride in my ancestors. That doesn't mean I'm proud to be Italian or Irish, it means I'm proud of the relatives who came before me (who happened to be Italian an Irish), struggled greatly, and achieved great things despite their many challenges.
Pride doesn't mean 'to be happy with'. The two aren't interchangeable or people would feel proud about most things and it would completely dilute the true meaning of the word.
Pride has more to do with satisfaction around achieving something and the self-esteem that comes from those achievements.
Words like proud and pride have been bastardized as much as racist and racism have.
Nobody should be ashamed of who they are when it comes to sexuality, race, ethnicity, height, looks, etc., but pride about those things makes no sense, since individuals have zero to do with those things.
They can be happy about those things - but feeling pride is really a stretch.
Redshadowz: Let's back up... I think we're talking about different things. You seem to be talking about a "school pride" type of judgment that is harmless where you say your school, city, town, spouse, country, etc. is the best because of your affection for it (a subjective judgment) and it has no bearing on anyone else's preference. That's totally fine... and, yes, my all-those-things are the best.
I initially was talking about people who think their race is objectively the best and others are inferior. If that's not what you were trying to say is "okay" then we are not in disagreement at all.
I don't believe in the accident of birth argument. My birth was planned by two white people and deliberate. Who else could I have been born as other than a white person? Other than myself? We could discuss reincarnation if you wish...there's some wiggle room in there. I think that would take us off topic though.
If someone wants to hang around with their own kind,I see no prob with that. The problem starts when violence (a.k.a. laws) is used to force associations.
You can associate with anyone you like. What you can't do is tell people where they can or cannot live, work, or go to school. If you don't like your neighbors, co-workers, or fellow students, you can move, get a different job, or drop out.
I am proud of the person I am, the family I have, and the way I live my life. I am no better or no worse than anyone else. I just happen to be white by birth which was not in my control whatsoever. If one is not proud of who they are as a person then some introspection may be needed.
To me, it's the difference between being proud of a culture and being proud of a race. Race is purely physical. Culture is about language, food, customs, beliefs, etc., and those are things people have a right to be proud of. No one complains about your Irish pride, your Italian pride, your Swedish pride, your Polish pride, your American pride, or any other kind of cultural pride.
"White pride" is different because it is purely about race, not culture. And before you say, "Well, black people have black pride . . .!" Yes, black Americans say "black pride" because they don't know what countries their ancestors came from. They only know it was somewhere in Africa. "Black pride" is African-American pride, which is cultural. In Africa, people talk about being proud to be Zulu, or Ghanaian, or Senegalese, etc. Like Europeans, they are proud of their various cultures and countries, not their race.
So that is the difference. See?
Now, if you're talking about the people in Charlottesville . .. that was not white pride. That was hate. People with Adolf Hilter quotes on their shirts, swastikas, helmets, shields, and making Nazi salutes -- that is white supremacy, not white pride. There's a huge difference. They may sometimes claim to just be proud to be white, but look closer at what their leaders write and share. It is pure hate. Richard Spencer, who organized the rally, published a piece on a site that included these lines: "Is black genocide right? And if so, what is the quickest and easiest way to dispose of them?"
Do you believe that black people and other non-whites should be rounded up and completely killed of? If not, don't align yourself with those people.
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