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You can't be a traitor if you're no longer a part of the country you are supposedly committing treason against.
The South seceded and formed a new country.
Secession was perfectly legal.
In fact, New York, Rhode Island and Virginia only joined the union on the condition that they could secede if they wanted to.
The only "treason" that took place was committed by Lincoln.
He committed treason against the Constitution by not recognizing the right of secession.
If we're going to remove statues, we should remove his statue.
I learned something interesting the other day when researching the Civil War. The southern states that signed on to join the Confederacy LOST their right to secession. The was no mechanism for seceding in the Confederate Constitution. So much for states' rights!
And no surprise about Rhode Island. Those Rhode Islanders have always been trouble.
Since Hawaii, and California are talking of succeeding, will you all support that act? Succeeding isnt treasoness. Its perfectly legal according to the Constitution..
And please dont deflect from the topic and digress.. Lets start a Change your Offensive name act , call your Representatives, get hot...
So just what do you want to discuss in this thread of yours?
Changing last names or Hawaii?
Pick one or the other. Deflection never works. You are the one doing the digressing here.
As far as the topic goes, I think its ridiculous.
Re-naming a school house is a completely different affair than a person changing his last name. The first is impersonal, but the second is intensely personal.
More importantly, the real kernel of your initial question is your apparent belief that the historic names of the leaders of a failed rebellion, who fought for a morally rotten cause, should be honored because of the fight they brought on.
My reply is: No. It's time to quit whitewashing the rebellion and its leaders. Re-naming a school or a building after a local educator, or a local who did a lot of good for their community would be a much better idea than leaving the name of a scoundrel on it.
The monuments, honorific names on edifices and all that were simply oppressive reminders to the black folks that white folks are still the boss, and they had better not forget it.
Those times are done and gone. Black and white folks did forget in a lot of places that the white man was always the boss and was always going to be the boss. Time and circumstances gave them all opportunities to forget all that and get along as fellows who all share the same place.
That's what came out of the civil rights movement. No one gets the willies if a black sheriff is elected any more. Or a mayor. Now, sometimes its a black guy who owns the largest business in town.
So why keep the reminders of oppression just because they've been around a long time? Those times haven't been forgotten, and they won't ever be, so no reminder is needed.
Let the past take its proper place. It's time to relax and appreciate others for who they are, without binding them to old events that should not have such prominence in their lives.
The confederacy was a big mistake. The United Daughters of the Confederacy, the KKK, and all the other supremacists only kept the mistake going. Infecting an old wound will never heal it.
No one is going to die of grief and sorrow if some old statue gets removed or a name gets changed on a bridge.
I learned something interesting the other day when researching the Civil War. The southern states that signed on to join the Confederacy LOST their right to secession. The was no mechanism for seceding in the Confederate Constitution. So much for states' rights!
And no surprise about Rhode Island. Those Rhode Islanders have always been trouble.
The Confederate constitution had nothing to do with losing rights of secession. The states seceded from the US and the US constitution did not have anything in it against secession until 1869 four years after the Civil war. So secession was not illegal and the south was not treasonous.
Some of us refuse to accept your PC version of America. Erasing history is the stuff of Nazis, taliban and commies. PC is about silencing freedom of speech in order to secure the liberal position from any challenges. Remember there are a lot of us, enough that republicans won the election. Also remember that a great many of us live in those old confederate states that currently are having thier history and culture attacked. Don't like statues to the confederacy? Keep it up and maybe you will be fighting the NEW confederacy. I hate the liberals, I hate thier freedom America hating ways, I hate them and would gladly put on a grey uniform if the time ever called for it. Think that's crazy talk? More and more you hear discussion of a possible second American civil war, we are easily as divided as we were in the 1850s. I am starting to think we will never settle these issues peacefully. The libs refuse to respect our rights and we refuse to give in and live in thier world. The funny thing about all of it is the libs think they will win again like it's still 1865. Things will go much worse for y'all if you start another war. We are prosperous, industrialized, well armed and we are tougher. Our military is made of of red state folks and most of the bases are here too. Really I am not sure what cards blue state America would hol in a civil war. Oh I guess y'all protest better than us
Settle down internet tough guy..
You're Not allowed to talk **** when you got your ass kicked the first time..
There's not gonna be another war put your gun back in the holster
Since the left is mortified and offended by Civil War Southern Generals, Southern Leaders and All POTUS up to and during that time, except Lincoln..Lets change your last name too...
I propose that all people that have last names that are representative of the Civil War Generals/Politicians of the South, and any POTUS, etc that owned slaves be changed too. This will make you feel better, i am sure, as your feelings are hurt..
So, go through the process of changing your name to something more universally accepted.. Like Clinton, nope, they were rednecks from Arkansas, or Byrd, nope he was KKK, or ....Mine, nope my family name had something to do with civil rights, and i dont want people jumping on the bandwagon...
Oh, just make up one, I am sure you will find one that doesnt offend you.
So that there is clarity, there are different brands of liberals. The liberals that run around and look for trouble under every rock and if they don't find it they invent something. They are nothing but rabble rousers and social justice warriors looking to start a fight. Then there are union guys like me who believe that over time the overtime provision and the minimum wage provision of the Fair Labor Standards Act have eroded away to almost nothing. I fight to preserve fairness in paying people for an honest days work. I've noticed that FOX News doesn't like me either.
I believe that the Confederate statues have their place in history. Democratic politicians who simply want to remove these statues without placing them in some other place of honor seem to be acting with a certain vindictiveness. While American social justice warriors have found a new mud hole to spin their wheels in, I remind them that there are people working for less than a livable wage that deserves more of their attention than statues of dead soldiers.
You and the other wannabe Johnny Rebs won't get a do-over on the Civil War. Except maybe in your computer games.
And that way, ya won't get hurt unless you trip over the power cord.
Funny.... you should take up comedy. FYI I don't play video games but my teenage son does. Seriously you liberals don't understand how seriously fed up red state America is with you. Your location says Texas, not sure why you don't see it if you really live there. If they think we will just surrender our freedom, allow socialism and allow our heritage and history to continue to be attacked forever they are mistaken. If this liberal PC nonesense keeps up things will get ugly
So that there is clarity, there are different brands of liberals. The liberals that run around and look for trouble under every rock and if they don't find it they invent something. They are nothing but rabble rousers and social justice warriors looking to start a fight. Then there are union guys like me who believe that over time the overtime provision and the minimum wage provision of the Fair Labor Standards Act have eroded away to almost nothing. I fight to preserve fairness in paying people for an honest days work. I've noticed that FOX News doesn't like me either.
I believe that the Confederate statues have their place in history. Democratic politicians who simply want to remove these statues without placing them in some other place of honor seem to be acting with a certain vindictiveness. While American social justice warriors have found a new mud hole to spin their wheels in, I remind them that there are people working for less than a livable wage that deserves more of their attention than statues of dead soldiers.
It seems the majority of liberals today fall into the highlighted above.
Since the left is mortified and offended by Civil War Southern Generals, Southern Leaders and All POTUS up to and during that time, except Lincoln..Lets change your last name too...
They just torched a statue of Lincoln. They hate the President that freed them. More stupidity in the name of stupidity to forward stupidity by ignorant people.
Originally Posted by Tonyafd So that there is clarity, there are different brands of liberals. The liberals that run around and look for trouble under every rock and if they don't find it they invent something. They are nothing but rabble rousers and social justice warriors looking to start a fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty011
It seems the majority of liberals today fall into the highlighted above.
I'd modify that to be Progressive Liberals, who are neither progressive nor liberal.
Yep, all the Lees and the Jacksons and Jeffersons have to go even on the headstones.
No more Jackson 5 or Michael Jackson, no more Representative Barbara Lee, no more Frank Marshall Davis, no more TV show The Jeffersons, no more Miles Davis, no more Viola Davis, no more Stan Lee, no more Bruce Lee, no more "Nobody Doesn't Like Sarah Lee," no more Jeb Bush, no more Pamela Anderson, no more Gillian Anderson, no more Marian Anderson...their names are all offensive.
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