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Old 09-28-2017, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,402,773 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcee squared View Post
Who says; government or god?
I don't anything about god so it could be.

Can't be government. Humans predate government.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,859,299 times
Reputation: 10791
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I understand.

I'll try it again...clean slate.

Where do rights come from?
Society. Government protects us from religious oppression.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:04 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,295,161 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I must have missed it.
No you didn't. You don't even believe in the Constitution.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,293,486 times
Reputation: 19953
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Private property is your body and anything you mix your labor with. Doesn't necessarily mean land.
Anything you "mix your labor with?" Like my MacBook and iPad?

What does that even mean?

My body came from cells and zygotes, not god.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,402,773 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
No you didn't. You don't even believe in the Constitution.
I don't.

Humans predate the Constitution anyway.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:08 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,295,161 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I don't.

Humans predate the Constitution anyway.
So the founders got it all wrong? Just the parts you disagree with? You don't believe in God?
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:09 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,701,394 times
Reputation: 14051
It really is as if a large % of Americans never attended school - even primary and middle school.

Didn't folks learn the basics of history? It has been a long slow and tough slog toward liberty and these rights - most American history starts with the Greeks and gives them credit for philosophies pointing toward the present. Then they do onward to Rome which didn't improve on them much, but did spread some ideas of self-governance (although under the rule of Rome).

But the history I was taught in middle school used the Magna Carta as the example of words which formed the modern world....and most everything that followed used that basis. Obviously things change and need to be updated, added to, etc. - and that is what we have today.

One of the craziest ideas going around (more on the right - the Federalists and Originalists) is that the US Constitution came from high above. But if one reads about the writing of it, it's quite clear that it was simply a distillation of British ideals....stripped of the Monarchy and Church. Pretty simple, really.

The rest was just working out the details - many of which ended up wrong (amendments, need for Bill of Rights, etc.)....and, once again today, we are having problems due to lack of updating.

The system has been "gamed" so deeply that it is no longer functioning as intended. We now have government by minority instead of majority. We have gerrymandering that would make the founders shudder. We have political parties in charge of the entire election setup in a state...including counting the votes!

To quote the founders, our system was designed for an upright and moral people. We don't have that. So we are now gored with our own sword.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Texas
37,963 posts, read 17,908,356 times
Reputation: 10379
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA.89 View Post
Ok? That doesn't tell me how they came from God.
Go back to rights. Those are about having those rights as a protection.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,402,773 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Anything you "mix your labor with?" Like my MacBook and iPad?

What does that even mean?

My body came from cells and zygotes, not god.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_property

Ignore the Lockean proviso. Locke was a psychotic social contract proponent.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,402,773 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So the founders got it all wrong? Just the parts you disagree with? You don't believe in God?
The founders were statists. I never signed their documents anyway.

God? Never think about it.

Rights come from existence. If not, I'm a slave to anyone who simply wishes to impose their will on me.
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