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Lol, Ive heard this numerous times (though not on here, as of yet) but on social media and other boards from anti-gun advocates. I.e, they rather not you use a gun in defending your family (because you might end up shooting a family member) but just let the criminal do harm and let the chips fall where they may.
This philosophy has even been advocated by large , urban police agencies. "Give them what they want." The theory being if you just submit a criminal won't hurt or kill you. The hole in that are glaringly obvious and I've gone into to to many times.
I have seen posters here say that there is nothing that you possess that is worth taking a life for or risking your own life by fighting back. There's even been threads on it remember. Get's me to thinking.
Im not going back 5 years into my social media account to find so called proof for you, Lol that's just ridiculous.
What I hear from anti gun advocates is that no one should have guns
except for criminals and government.
We'll now you're "hearing" from two "anti-gun advocates" that what you've heard isn't the case. Feel free to trim down your brush.
And I'm writing this as person whose uncle was murdered in a robbery in his own home, along with his girlfriend. He had a gun, but couldn't get to it in time. Had he, I would have welcomed his would-be murderer's head on a platter.
It has been posted on numerous gun threads. Go look for it.
Yep, that and far worse has been posted by anti gun types. In profusion. t's also interesting how these anti types will pick apart and scarify a citizen who used a gun to stop a violent criminal, but will give police shooting where dozens of rounds get fired because someone moved wrong or didn't immediately comply with commands a pass. Cops shoot scumbags every day , but they also shoot people they shouldn't have even pulled on.
And these numbers get put into the statistics that the haters love to wave around to. Statistics I give zero credibility to.
Well, I watched the first video and I saw something different from what you did. The way the clerk handled his gun was a certain style I've seen as common in the IPSC, circle of discipline. He wasn't shooting "willy nilly" His fire was directed at specific targets. He was using specific , identifiable, handling techniques and defensive tactics. A full extension , two handed Weaver hold, "tuck and cover" two handed retention stance, and a one handed "line of sight" aiming from behind cover. The last agree was poorly executed but hey this wasn't a controlled situation on the training course. This was the real thing.
From what I saw the clerk has had some training. His deployment of the gun was not executed like someone who has never handled a hand gun. Oh I do agree that he didn't look like Doug Koenig or Rob Leatham. But he was not a totally rank beginner either. He was scanning, making sure he retained his gun, and directing his shots at the threat. And it looked to me as if he's had some training.
No , he wasn't looking like some top gun for team SW, but this wasn't an IPSC course either. I've been shooting competitively in several disciplines and have had a LOT of training and I can't say that I would have done better in this particular situation. I did cringe a bit when I saw his gun turn sideways when he went to line of sight, but we can't see outside the door what he was shooting at. The robbers were clearly identifiable and if he had a fat target outside the door his method of engaging and remaining behind cover was not something I'm going to criticize. Especially if what he was shooting at was prepared to shoot back.
I think he gave an admirable accounting. Three armed thugs, he dropped two. This was a serious, real world situation. Yea, I reckon his methodology would have gotten him multiple procedural violations in an IPSC match, but he wasn't engaging paper targets.
No, I agree with you. His handling was fine. I guess I shouldn't have used the terms I used, but the point was that the two innocent customers were right there in the video, just at the bottom left, and he is firing very close to them. In fact, if you watch the video, he shot to their right first, then their left, and then again right near them to their right. It was a lot closer to them than you are making it out to be.
After that, he seems to empty the gun out the front door, where anyone could have been walking or driving by. That is not safely handling the weapon, especially considering he was shooting at the people who had already run out the door.
No, I agree with you. His handling was fine. I guess I shouldn't have used the terms I used, but the point was that the two innocent customers were right there in the video, just at the bottom left, and he is firing very close to them. In fact, if you watch the video, he shot to their right first, then their left, and then again right near them to their right. It was a lot closer to them than you are making it out to be.
After that, he seems to empty the gun out the front door, where anyone could have been walking or driving by. That is not safely handling the weapon, especially considering he was shooting at the people who had already run out the door.
Yes, I also agree there were extraneous factors to consider in his sending rounds out. The video and commentary doesn't tell us if he was taking fire though. mmmm, it's an unfortunate fact that in such cases as this bystanders and passers by could be endangered.
I can't say what the clerks assessment of things was and not having been there I don't want to be overly critical in picking apart his actions from a poor quality video. I am going to fall way short of throwing out terms like "hero" and such. Having had to use lethal force to defend myself I know that personally I don't want such honorifics applied to me either.
All I can say further on this is it seems the clerk did what he felt he had to. I will leave picking it apart to those who are actually tasked with doing so.
Yes, I also agree there were extraneous factors to consider in his sending rounds out. The video and commentary doesn't tell us if he was taking fire though. mmmm, it's an unfortunate fact that in such cases as this bystanders and passers by could be endangered.
I can't say what the clerks assessment of things was and not having been there I don't want to be overly critical in picking apart his actions from a poor quality video. I am going to fall way short of throwing out terms like "hero" and such. Having had to use lethal force to defend myself I know that personally I don't want such honorifics applied to me either.
All I can say further on this is it seems the clerk did what he felt he had to. I will leave picking it apart to those who are actually tasked with doing so.
Agreed. There is only so much we can see in the video. Not sure if he was taking fire, but he didn't seem to be, at least while they were in the store. He does kind of duck a bit as they are running out though, so maybe they fired then.
Of course, having not been there, I can't say anything with 100% certainty. Having lived in a city for most of my life where people seem to routinely get killed by stray bullets, I just have a problem with people firing that many rounds out of a glass door. That is why my husband and I have protection that won't blast through our house and into our neighbors bedroom, if we ever had to use it.
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