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No, I didn't say that they couldn't learn - they were taught by the Wampanoag how to survive in their new environment so obviously they could learn.
Consider the British troops that in 1814 invaded Maryland and burned Washington to the ground. They were veteran troops that fought in the Peninsula War in Spain, that were transported across the Atlantic by the British Navy in much better ships and with much better provisions that the Pilgrims on the Mayflower in 1620. Those British troops were landed at Tangier Island in Chesapeake Bay and given a month to rest and recover from the Atlantic crossing before they were used in the Chesapeake Campaign.
British veteran troops needed a month of recuperation before they could perform the duties for which they were trained, proficient, and experienced. But to fulfill your expectations, Pilgrims from England who had never hunted or fished a day in their lives, or even fired a gun or rowed a boat, and whose Atlantic Crossing was much worse, are expected to suddenly spring up and learn to hunt in a strange land full of potential hostiles and to fish in an ocean without any fishing gear or knowledge of the waters?
It's simply a fact that the Libertarian fairy tale of Pilgrims dying because they practiced "socialism" is demonstrably false.
Yea lets consider 1814 because it has nothing to do with the pilgrims. lmao What a dumb comparison. So there are no examples of troops making the long crossing and going into battle right away? Or once their ships hit the shore line they waited for a month before they attacked? Is that what happened? They anchor off the coast line and they put out a "Nothing to see here sign"?
Back in the day, most people were not soft like today. There were actual men.
Because you say so? lol You've offered no proof. You made up a bunch of things and you were rightfully called out on it.
The Pilgrims died because they practiced a form of socialism is demonstrably true.
So a bunch of people who grew up in an age where one was expected to fish or hunt, it just so happened that these people didn't know how? lol They didn't plan ahead and work because of a defective philosophy. There was some lack of knowledge in that environment
Governor William Bradford wrote: “The failure of that experiment of communal service, which was tried for several years, and by good and honest men, proves the emptiness of the theory of Plato and other ancients, applauded by some of later times – that the taking away of private property, and the possession of it in community, by a commonwealth, would make a state happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God…community of property was found to breed much confusion and discontent, and retard much employment which would have been to the general benefit.”
and the following is why they succeeded.
" in 1623, after the first Thanksgiving, they trashed the system: “The Governor, with the advice of the chief among them, allowed each man to plant corn for his own household…So every family was assigned a parcel of land. This was very successful.”
Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 11-30-2021 at 07:05 AM..
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Because you say so? lol You've offered no proof. You made up a bunch of things and you were rightfully called out on it.
The Pilgrims died because they practiced a form of socialism is demonstrably true.
Gee and I always thought they died because they arrived too late in the season to farm, were inept at farming and survival skills and they placed an inordinate about trust in their faith which didn't fill their bellies. I guess that concept of their faith where they all work together must be the socialism you speak of seeing the word "socialism" didn't develop as a concept until the early 19th century.
Gee and I always thought they died because they arrived too late in the season to farm, were inept at farming and survival skills and they placed an inordinate about trust in their faith which didn't fill their bellies. I guess that concept of their faith where they all work together must be the socialism you speak of seeing the word "socialism" didn't develop as a concept until the early 19th century.
Gee, you didn't think this through is your problem.
"God helps those who help themselves" I do not have religion in my life but even I know that.
Next time, when you make things up about relying on faith, try harder.
gee the pilgrims must have traveled with just enough food to make the crossing. That makes sense in bizzarro world.
"The passengers brought dried meat and fish, grains and flour, dried fruit, cheese, hard biscuits, and other foods with them. They had to eat the food they brought until they could plant and harvest a garden. But, they caught and ate fish and wild game once they landed in North America."
That must be wrong. The Pilgrams didn't know how to hunt or fish right? It was too complicated? lol
Pilgrims were not properly ready, grew no food prior to the Winter, were already run down by the voyage to the new world, and suffered greatly from Pneumonia and scurvy.
I guess outside of Scurvy, poor health, lack of planning for food preparation, lack of farming knowledge, rampant pneumonia, poor clothing and shelter for the cold damp weather experienced, lack of understanding of what to grow in that region, you might be on to something.
Pilgrims were not properly ready, grew no food prior to the Winter, were already run down by the voyage to the new world, and suffered greatly from Pneumonia and scurvy.
I guess outside of Scurvy, poor health, lack of planning for food preparation, lack of farming knowledge, rampant pneumonia, poor clothing and shelter for the cold damp weather experienced, lack of understanding of what to grow in that region, you might be on to something.
They arrived in November. One cannot grow food before winter when one doesn't arrive before winter.
In 1620 Plymouth Plantation was founded with a system of communal property rights. People received the same rations whether or not they contributed to producing the food, and residents were forbidden from producing their own food. Because of the poor incentives, little food was produced.
Faced with potential starvation in the spring of 1623, the colony decided to implement a new economic system. Every family was assigned a private parcel of land. They could then keep all they grew for themselves, but now they alone were responsible for feeding themselves.
Once the Pilgrims in the Plymouth Plantation abandoned their communal economic system and adopted one with greater individual property rights, they never again faced the starvation and food shortages of the first three years
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Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
Gee, you didn't think this through is your problem.
"God helps those who help themselves" I do not have religion in my life but even I know that.
Next time, when you make things up about relying on faith, try harder.
gee the pilgrims must have traveled with just enough food to make the crossing. That makes sense in bizzarro world.
"The passengers brought dried meat and fish, grains and flour, dried fruit, cheese, hard biscuits, and other foods with them. They had to eat the food they brought until they could plant and harvest a garden. But, they caught and ate fish and wild game once they landed in North America."
That must be wrong. The Pilgrams didn't know how to hunt or fish right? It was too complicated? lol
Sorry but the faith card doesn't fill an empty stomach when you arrive too late to plant crops and "live off the land". Half died the first winter they were there, guess the hunting wasn't too good and its hard to fish when everything is frozen solid.
Sorry but the faith card doesn't fill an empty stomach when you arrive too late to plant crops and "live off the land".
Sorry but no one but you is playing the faith card. Quit making things up.
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Originally Posted by VA Yankee
Half died the first winter they were there, guess the hunting wasn't too good and its hard to fish when everything is frozen solid.
"Forty-five of the 102 Mayflower passengers died in the winter of 1620–21, and the Mayflower colonists suffered greatly during their first winter in the New World from lack of shelter, scurvy, and general conditions on board ship."
It wasn't starvation that killed them the first few months after they arrived.
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Sorry but no one but you is playing the faith card. Quit making things up.
"Forty-five of the 102 Mayflower passengers died in the winter of 1620–21, and the Mayflower colonists suffered greatly during their first winter in the New World from lack of shelter, scurvy, and general conditions on board ship."
It wasn't starvation that killed them the first few months after they arrived.
"The group that set out from Plymouth, in southwestern England, in September 1620 included 35 members of a radical Puritan faction known as the English Separatist Church. In 1607"
No one is playing the faith card, sorry if you don't recognize sarcasm....
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