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No, I don't advocate for a world where women are forced to have babies.
I advocate for a world where women are smart enough not to get pregnant when they are unwilling or unable to care for a child.
Yet no one has the guts to acknowledge that statement. It's like everyone here fully believes that women are too stupid NOT to get pregnant and will fight to the death to ensure women can kill their babies, without ever looking at WHY they are pregnant in the first place.
And there is no interpretation of morality. Morality as a concept is very clear. It's like gravity. Don't believe in it? Doesn't matter. You step off that cliff you WILL fall to your death. Doesn't matter what anyone's *interpretation* of gravity is, it affects us all in the same manner whether we believe it or not.
Then why don't you follow that morality? because according to the CDC, the highest cause of the U.S. infant mortality rate was birth defects...and I'm betting at least some of those birth defects could be solved through abortion. The only rational view I can see is discussing how late abortion should be allowed.
What are you saying? That every women should never get pregnant because she will die as a result?
You said it wasn't a medical condition. You were proven wrong. Women who get no medical care during pregnancy and delivery are much more likely to have medical problems.
And while a woman certainly can give birth all by herself without any medical care, I don't advise it. The delivery of my first child turned high risk during the delivery. Both I and my son probably would have died without medical assistance.
Your ignorance is astounding, but typical among the forced-birth crowd.
No, I don't advocate for a world where women are forced to have babies.
I advocate for a world where women are smart enough not to get pregnant when they are unwilling or unable to care for a child.
Yet no one has the guts to acknowledge that statement. It's like everyone here fully believes that women are too stupid NOT to get pregnant and will fight to the death to ensure women can kill their babies, without ever looking at WHY they are pregnant in the first place.
In a perfect world no one would make a mistake. Birth control would never fail. Children wouldn't be sexually molested/raped by adults. Teenagers wouldn't be ignorant because Christian fundamentalists refuse to allow them to be educated.
Let us know when you find that world. Meanwhile, back here in our current reality...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabridgienne
Ooh, she's found the bold font tag! It's getting serious!
Then why don't you follow that morality? because according to the CDC, the highest cause of the U.S. infant mortality rate was birth defects...and I'm betting at least some of those birth defects could be solved through abortion. The only rational view I can see is discussing how late abortion should be allowed.
So your decision is to kill all babies with birth defects?
Great plan. Let me know how it goes. Be sure to tell all moms who love their kids who have birth defects your plan. I'll start with my aunt and tell her she should've killed my nephew, that somehow he didn't deserve life.
Do you people even hear how grotesque you sound?
Argument after argument after argument to try to rationalize, support and promote killing babies.
Either that, or you are just a troll trying to push buttons.
Then as I said that was her failing - not the failing of abortion. If you are going to pursue a career in the medical world you are likely going to see things that challenge you. It is not for everyone. And if people find they can not handle it - they should of course get out.
But it has nothing to do with the morality and ethics of abortion.
Or women can just take responsibility for themselves not to get pregnant when they are unable or unwilling to have a child.
Do keep up we already dealt with that point. I guess since you ran away from the end of our last conversation you just hit "reset" and are now re-spewing everything that was rebutted before. Let us summarise what you have forgotten:
1) Abortion is for people who _are_ pregnant. So lording over them that they should not have gotten pregnant is nothing but high horse nonsense.
2) There are many risks we take in life - knowing there is a possibility of consequences. We deal with those consequences when they arise. Screeching and screaming about responsibility does not help.
3) Abstinence only thought processes have been spectacular failures in the past.
4) People can responsibly use contraception - even multiple at the same time - and still get pregnant.
5) Not all pregnancies are due to responsibility - some happen due to things like rape.
6) Not all people seeking abortion do so because of unwanted pregnancies. Many in fact did want to get pregnant but upon getting pregnant their circumstances changed. And often those changes in circumstances makes a life bringing up a child unworkable and not viable. So your narrative that everyone ending up pregnant was somehow irresponsible is just fantasy tosh nonsense of your own imagination.
7) "Taking responsibility" involves sitting down and considering all the options maturely and intellectually and selecting the right one. Just because _you_ do not like abortion does not mean someone making that choice is not taking responsibility. They are. Because that is what taking responsibility means. Accepting the consequences of an action and deciding how to proceed. You appear to think taking responsibility means that the person should do what you would do - and not do what you would not. But that would not be them taking responsibility. That is you taking their responsibility from them.
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Originally Posted by newtovenice
And abortion is and will always be a moral issue BEFORE it is a legal issue.
Sure. Which is why it is telling that you have not yet constructed a single moral argument against it. You just screech out words like murder and baby and responsibility. But not once in this entire thread so far have you managed to construct an argument against abortion on moral grounds. Specifically abortion when most people who ask for one get it. Which is pretty much always in or before week 12 of gestation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
The law is not always right. The doctors are not always right.
Sure but that is a lazy argument. Just because someone is not always right - does not make them wrong in an arbitrary context of your own convenience. Whether a person or group was right or wrong in the past - says nothing about whether they are right or wrong in the present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Morality does not change, no matter how you try to bend it to your will.
Morality changes all the time because it is a subjective set of constructs of an every changing species in an ever changing environment. If you want to pretend morality is some objective unmoving standard that exists somewhere outside of humanity then that is exactly what you would be doing. Pretending. And to prop up that pretense you probably have to pretend all kinds of other things too - like some magical sky fairy god or some such. But there is no evidence there is one of those either.
Then as I said that was her failing - not the failing of abortion. If you are going to pursue a career in the medical world you are likely going to see things that challenge you. It is not for everyone. And if people find they can not handle it - they should of course get out.
But it has nothing to do with the morality and ethics of abortion.
Not sure what you mean. I didn't say that the abortions were failures. It was her becoming more aware through direct experience of the realities of abortion. I think many people believe that at that stage of development the aborted fetus will just be a clump of cells. No tiny hands or feet, etc. I believe that many people don't think very deeply about it beyond a women's right to choose.
The vast majority of medical assistants, even those who work in reproductive heath do not assist in abortions so I'm sure that her career choice has panned out just fine although I doubt she stayed with Planned Parenthood.
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