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I brought it up on another tread that Charles Whitman, the Texas Tower shooter, was brought down by police under the covering fire of armed citizens who retrieved their personal firearms and pinned him down allowing the police to enter the tower and get to him.
So, shootings do occur in placed where people have guns.
Yeah after having years of crap shoveled high and deep on our plate and told it's cremebrulee, you tend to not allow a fast one or sneak through to occur without being challeneged... which is typically why we are hated by wherever we move to. Can't **** down our backs and tell us it's rain.
But I want to further my stance and why I am a member of GOA and not the NRA and that is below...
I'll assume pops here is about 70 80... he and many others of the country club that is the NRA are irrelevant. If you are pro 2nd Amendment you are flint lock to full auto. No negotiating no compromising.
He's stuck in a realm and holds the mentality that so long as his marlin lever action, his bolt action, breech double barrel and single action revolver aren't touched, or up for debate, then everything is fine.
I'll break it down for him to understand...
They came for the bumpstocks. I said nothing for I didn't own a bumpstock.
They came for the birdcages and collapsing stocks. I said nothing for I didn't own any modern sporting rifles.
They came for standard capacity magazines and manipulated them as high capacity. I said nothing for my revolver holds 6, my tube fed 22 holds 15, my lever action holds 7 and my bolt action holds 3.
They came for the ammo that feeds the evil black rifles. I said nothing for wad cutters 00/slugs and hard cast 45-70 feed mine.
They banned the evil scary looking Feinstein weapons of war rifles. I said nothing for I do not own one.
Now they came for my Fudd guns and labeled me as an enemy of the state.
Sounds silly. But that is what has been going on in the 30 years I've been alive. Just a little more. Just a little more. Yet... we gain nothing... that isn't compromising as in you get this we get that. That's compromising in the integrity was weakened...
The United we stand divided we all fall is lost on Fudds. They do not see the big picture.
Unfortunately he doesn't see the benefit of electing a congress critter senator or governor that will uphold the constitution and believes that NRA lobbying to protect all of our rights is a good thing.
I vote for folks who will abide by the constitution and preserve it. Not be swayed by opinion and emotion. And if the NRA helps to preserve OUR Rights to keep and bear arms through campaign donations then great.
He finds that appalling or disagrees with it?
I find it appalling there are lobbyists and politicians that stand on the fallen to promote their agenda at eradicating a constitutionally protected right because the feelz...
I find it appalling to use tragedy in vain to promote legislation that will curtail the rights of current and future generations. I do.
The mentality of government will solve all our problems, this mentality of looking for an adult or higher power to be in the room to do for them, is trading liberty for a false sense of security. I find it seditious and borderline treasonous.
I also find it to be weak and feeble.
Proving my point for me every single day here and elsewhere that society is and has decayed to remove ones personal responsibility and look to the almighty government and big brother to serve as their provider and protector.
I may be 30. I may have been born at night, but it surely wasn't last night.
I may have lived 28 years in NY. I'm not a bleeding heart nor looking for someone else to handle my life's problems for me.
I said it before, I'll say it again.
I have a kid get mowed down in a school. That school is getting hammered to the wall for not having an armed deterrence present to thwart the threat the moment it started.
I'm not blaming police for not being there the second it started. They can't be everywhere at every second of the day.
I'm not even holding them remotely accountable.
I'm not standing on a soap box demanding a knee jerk response from congress, the Senate, and whomever is president.
For the option was there the entire time to prevent or at least stop it when it occurred and the bleeding hearts who wet themselves over the sight of a firearm because that is what the media tells them they should think and feel, along with politicians and anti gun lobbyists, I would hold complicit in enabling such a heinous event ocurring.
They want to forfeit their rights that's fine.
I'm not.
Nor am I expecting anyone else to. We can agree to disagree. But when you go poking at OUR rights because of your feeble emotions and feelings, and believe you can subjectively interpret the constitution to fit a restrictive mentality and punishing mentality built upon a false equivalency of all gun owners or owners of a certain type of firearm are responsible...
I also said it before.
You can wish upon your shooting stars to make firearms, ammo, the knowledge to produce them to vanish. You have solved nothing as you did not address incentive, motive, or intent. The implement will only change. But hey, at least it wasn't done with a gun! Right?
You wish for violent thoughts, actions, and incentives that enable violent actions to occur to vanish, you could flood the entire world with firearms and ammo. For there would be no motive to harm another, kill another.
"Pops" here can outshoot you any day of the week. You pick the firearm.
Yeah after having years of crap shoveled high and deep on our plate and told it's cremebrulee, you tend to not allow a fast one or sneak through to occur without being challeneged... which is typically why we are hated by wherever we move to. Can't **** down our backs and tell us it's rain.
But I want to further my stance and why I am a member of GOA and not the NRA and that is below...
I'll assume pops here is about 70 80... he and many others of the country club that is the NRA are irrelevant. If you are pro 2nd Amendment you are flint lock to full auto. No negotiating no compromising.
He's stuck in a realm and holds the mentality that so long as his marlin lever action, his bolt action, breech double barrel and single action revolver aren't touched, or up for debate, then everything is fine.
I'll break it down for him to understand...
They came for the bumpstocks. I said nothing for I didn't own a bumpstock.
They came for the birdcages and collapsing stocks. I said nothing for I didn't own any modern sporting rifles.
They came for standard capacity magazines and manipulated them as high capacity. I said nothing for my revolver holds 6, my tube fed 22 holds 15, my lever action holds 7 and my bolt action holds 3.
They came for the ammo that feeds the evil black rifles. I said nothing for wad cutters 00/slugs and hard cast 45-70 feed mine.
They banned the evil scary looking Feinstein weapons of war rifles. I said nothing for I do not own one.
Now they came for my Fudd guns and labeled me as an enemy of the state.
Sounds silly. But that is what has been going on in the 30 years I've been alive. Just a little more. Just a little more. Yet... we gain nothing... that isn't compromising as in you get this we get that. That's compromising in the integrity was weakened...
The United we stand divided we all fall is lost on Fudds. They do not see the big picture.
Unfortunately he doesn't see the benefit of electing a congress critter senator or governor that will uphold the constitution and believes that NRA lobbying to protect all of our rights is a good thing.
I vote for folks who will abide by the constitution and preserve it. Not be swayed by opinion and emotion. And if the NRA helps to preserve OUR Rights to keep and bear arms through campaign donations then great.
He finds that appalling or disagrees with it?
I find it appalling there are lobbyists and politicians that stand on the fallen to promote their agenda at eradicating a constitutionally protected right because the feelz...
I find it appalling to use tragedy in vain to promote legislation that will curtail the rights of current and future generations. I do.
The mentality of government will solve all our problems, this mentality of looking for an adult or higher power to be in the room to do for them, is trading liberty for a false sense of security. I find it seditious and borderline treasonous.
I also find it to be weak and feeble.
Proving my point for me every single day here and elsewhere that society is and has decayed to remove ones personal responsibility and look to the almighty government and big brother to serve as their provider and protector.
I may be 30. I may have been born at night, but it surely wasn't last night.
I may have lived 28 years in NY. I'm not a bleeding heart nor looking for someone else to handle my life's problems for me.
I said it before, I'll say it again.
I have a kid get mowed down in a school. That school is getting hammered to the wall for not having an armed deterrence present to thwart the threat the moment it started.
I'm not blaming police for not being there the second it started. They can't be everywhere at every second of the day.
I'm not even holding them remotely accountable.
I'm not standing on a soap box demanding a knee jerk response from congress, the Senate, and whomever is president.
For the option was there the entire time to prevent or at least stop it when it occurred and the bleeding hearts who wet themselves over the sight of a firearm because that is what the media tells them they should think and feel, along with politicians and anti gun lobbyists, I would hold complicit in enabling such a heinous event ocurring.
They want to forfeit their rights that's fine.
I'm not.
Nor am I expecting anyone else to. We can agree to disagree. But when you go poking at OUR rights because of your feeble emotions and feelings, and believe you can subjectively interpret the constitution to fit a restrictive mentality and punishing mentality built upon a false equivalency of all gun owners or owners of a certain type of firearm are responsible...
I also said it before.
You can wish upon your shooting stars to make firearms, ammo, the knowledge to produce them to vanish. You have solved nothing as you did not address incentive, motive, or intent. The implement will only change. But hey, at least it wasn't done with a gun! Right?
You wish for violent thoughts, actions, and incentives that enable violent actions to occur to vanish, you could flood the entire world with firearms and ammo. For there would be no motive to harm another, kill another.
"Pops" here can outshoot you any day of the week, twerp. You pick the firearm. Muzzle loaders are fine (perscussion or flintlock), as are Mauser machine pistols, Lugers, Anschutz match rifles, Winchester .30-30s, Springfields, Enfields, M1 or -2 carbines, Garands, Colt single-action .45s - whatever you choose.
Most people actually differentiate between terror attacks and mass shootings. Some disagree with that, I know. But most mass shootings here are to kill folks, not make a political statement. Terror attacks, even those using guns, are to strike terror in peoples hearts and usually come with someone taking responsibility for the attack.
Some mass shooters might would use another means of death if guns weren't readily available. Not all would and it's doubtful to me that most would. The Las Vegas shooter clearly did not want to be up close and personal to the people he shot. So a knife was out. He wasn't a bomb maker, apparently, and arson at his chosen location (an outdoor event) probably would not have killed and injured as many as he did. I venture to guess he thought he could do the most damage with a gun.
Not all of these guys are physically fit. It's easier to pull a trigger than to try to stab multiple people.
Regardless of what position folks take-- and I'm not advocating rounding up anyone's guns -- the issue at least in part is obviously about guns in America.
He also had a pilot's license was supposedly a millionaire and had his own plane. He could have loaded the plane up with fuel and crashed it into the crowd. More than likely that would have killed more than he did with a firearm.
My guess and that's all that it is. Is that by crashing his plane into that crowd it would have been ruled as an accident rather than intentional. Obviously by shooting people at random it was indeed intentional, possibly as revenge against the City of Las Vegas for gambling debts he had incurred? His actions may have cost the city millions in revenue from vacationers and gamblers. Whether I'm right or not, I don't know? But it's the only thing I can come up with based on what I do know.
It's also pretty easy to make a pressure cooker bomb or even a simple molotov cocktail and toss it into a crowded room full of people or staircase as in the Happyland Fire.
At any rate mass murder is mass murder no matter the method or instruments employed. Anyone that is hell bent on committing such acts will not be deterred no matter how much legislation is passed.
But regardless and as a gun owner myself I couldn't imagine going on a shooting spree no more than driving my truck into a crowd of people. It's just not in my DNA. There are tens of millions like me that feel the same and will never cause harm to any innocent person no matter how many guns and quantities of ammunition they have or what type.
You may not be advocating rounding up anyone's guns using Gestapo like tactics. But there are plenty of people that are. People who have no idea of what the ramifications of that would entail. Not only the loss of our basic civil liberties, but the outbreak of another civil war the likes of which this nation would ever fully recover from. It would be a different society indeed.
I've argued that point many times to those who think the military and police would slaughter their own family, friends and neighbors. Destroying their homes and neighborhoods in the process. There would be absolutely nothing for them to come home to. It is more than likely that they would turn against the government that ordered them to do so. There are a lot of gun owning Americans that are retired law enforcement and military personnel who firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment and "Constitutional Law". They have been trained in both military and police tactics. Add to that the millions of us who know how to use firearms. Not to mention the quantity of guns and ammunition that are currently in private hands. We would indeed be a force to be reckoned with.
The issue shouldn't even be about guns in America. Violence, all types and the people that are willing to commit those acts and what to do about them is the real issue. The more we talk about guns as being the problem takes away from figuring out what to do about that.
As long as there are criminals and violent people that are allowed to roam around freely in our society because of a broken criminal justice system that ensures that, people are going to need a viable means of protection. Calling 911 and waiting for the police to arrive is not an option. Whether at home or while out and about. Depriving them of that option is criminal unto itself.
Quote:
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”---Benjamin Franklin
Killing is killing no matter what method or instruments are used. So I guess you're okay with killing as long as guns weren't used? Otherwise you should be in favor of banning just about anything that can be possibly used for that purpose? Guns are inanimate objects just as any other. They don't have supernatural powers.
Guns in the right hands have saved countless numbers of lives as well. So we shouldn't be passing laws that reward the guilty while punishing the innocent. Rewarding the guilty by making it easier for them to prey upon the innocent. While punishing the innocent by depriving them the means of which to defend themselves. Criminalizing the innocent does not punish the guilty.
The question the OP posed is, "Why do mass shootings never occur at places with lots of guns?" The subject here is guns and mass shootings with guns. The premise is flawed. My question is, again, why are there no or few mass shootings with guns in the rest of the developed world where guns are not prevalent?
"Pops" here can outshoot you any day of the week, twerp. You pick the firearm. Muzzle loaders are fine (perscussion or flintlock), as are Mauser machine pistols, Lugers, Anschutz match rifles, Winchester .30-30s, Springfields, Enfields, M1 or -2 carbines, Garands, Colt single-action .45s - whatever you choose.
LOL you won't dispute or argue anything I had written you want to do a measuring contest on skills and abilities? Okay. Thanks for proving my point for me...
Want to make a pee-pee measuring contest I'll take ya up on your offer if you find yourself at big 3 east.
It won't be bench rest though. Nor static targets either. Think you can hang? Running is involved...
It's not like it doesn't EVER happen...it's just much much more rare!
Yes, I believe CK was arrogant and made some stupid decisions because of that!
I'm pretty darn good with a gun but I won't go shooting with people I don't trust to be mature/sane enough to handle a firearm.
He was also a chronic liar. He got caught in a bunch of them.
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