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This would be a great discussion, if it could be kept civil.
Truthfully, I have mixed feelings about how we should handle immigration. I think it's important to know who is entering the country, for security reasons, but at the same time, let's remember that the 9/11 terrorists were not immigrants. I don't think we need a wall, but I do think we need to enforce the laws that are currently in place, including cracking down hard on businesses that knowingly hire people who are not here legally.
I understand the appeal of merit-based, but it seems to me that, for those who are concerned about immigrants taking jobs from American citizens, that it might be an issue. After all, people who come in for the best jobs are getting...ta da...the best jobs. On the other hand, we hear all the time that there is a shortage of qualified people in the STEM fields, and that these people are needed. I'm not sure I believe that, but I don't really know.
I do know that saying merit-based will somehow protect us from terrorists seems a bit naïve. There is no guarantee that a well-educated, highly competent person cannot be an extremist. The only difference is, if they are so inclined, they could do a lot more damage.
If you look back through history, just about every ethnic group who came here in large numbers was hated, and their arrival considered the potential downfall of the Republic. Germans, Irish, Italians, Jews, Chinese...they pretty much all scared the socks off people who believed they would take over and ruin everything. It didn't happen then, and I don't think it's likely to happen today.
Now, if you want to talk about Americans losing their jobs, let's talk about offshoring, particularly of call centers and help lines for computers...
Last edited by Catgirl64; 02-07-2018 at 04:38 PM..
So what? It's not the 1900s anymore and what benefited your probably European Jewish family has nothing to do with mass, globalized immigration. What other policies from the early 1900s would you support keeping?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dothetwist
Why do you ASSume I am European Jew??
While I agree with the general sentiment in mtl1s post, I’m wondering why he thinks that too.
There’s not too many European Jews moving to central Mexico. You probably cant even get decent Chinese food there.
Last edited by AnesthesiaMD; 02-07-2018 at 04:50 PM..
How is merit-based immigration going to help our economy?Do you support DV lottery and chain immigration or Trump's merit-based proposal? Why is he not ready to abolish h1b/h4?
Has it ever occurred to you that the traditional reason we welcome immigrants is because it's the right, generous, compassionate thing to do in a country that says it reveres liberty - not simply for economic gain?
A lot of you guys like to compare immigration 100 or more years ago with immigration now. They are not comparable.
We have social safety nets now that we didnt have back then. My ancestors in the 1840s didnt have the option of food stamps, welfare, medicaid, or section 8 housing. They were completely on their own. These programs dont have unlimited funds.
You guys cant cry that “the rich dont pay their fare share” while at the same time advocating taking on more poor people to support.
All 4 my grandparents who arrived in the early 1900s would be refused under the trump plan. But EVERY one of their 22 grandkids either went to college (and grad school) or started a business or held and hold some very good jobs.
BTW, none of my grandparents ever mastered English, few of them even tried.
Trump doesn't have a time machine to retroactively make your grandparents illegal 100 years ago, so rest easy. Immigration policy has to be based on current conditions, not Ellis Island nostalgia.
Has it ever occurred to you that the traditional reason we welcome immigrants is because it's the right, generous, compassionate thing to do in a country that says it reveres liberty - not simply for economic gain?
The point of this nation isn't to be generous and compassionate to foreigners. The ONLY and SOLE purpose of this nation is to safeguard the natural rights of AMERICAN CITIZENS. Full stop.
We don't "need" more people. And if we did, we can make our own.
All 4 my grandparents who arrived in the early 1900s would be refused under the trump plan. But EVERY one of their 22 grandkids either went to college (and grad school) or started a business or held and hold some very good jobs.
BTW, none of my grandparents ever mastered English, few of them even tried.
So what's the point? That was then, this is now. Country was basically empty back then. Now its full. Things change. Things that were permissible or even necessary once are not going to be FOREVER AND EVER. How can you not grasp this simple concept?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
You know, way back around 1786-1790, my Scots-Irish tenant farmer ancestors came here using what's now called "chain immigration". An older sibling came first, then was joined a few years later by his elderly widowed mother and all but a couple of his siblings. Two years later, another brother and his family came across The Pond and were assisted by their previously arrived family members.
Within one or two generations, the younger generations of that family were mayors of major Southern American cities, and two married into the families of presidential candidates. The first generation - the actual immigrants - founded schools, donated land for churches, educated their offspring, paid for the education of other promising young people, become prominent business owners and extensive property owners, had city streets named for them, paid for the construction of turnpikes, and more. Their descendants are many and demonstrate an unusual degree of success, measured by any yardstick.
I could go on, but I think this family of "chain immigrants" certainly did their part to contribute to the well-being and economy of early America.
I'm glad no one restricted them, back in the day.
There is no way we can foretell the future and predict what today's immigrants and their descendants might achieve. But why view them as competitors to "Americans", and instead give them an opportunity to become patriotic and productive Americans themselves, just as did my ancestors?
That's fine. But we don't need to populate the country or settle the frontier, that's all been done. So the conditions that made it possible for your ancestors to thrive and contribute no longer exist. No frontier to settle, no Indians to fight, no land to homestead.
How is merit-based immigration going to help our economy?Do you support DV lottery and chain immigration or Trump's merit-based proposal? Why is he not ready to abolish h1b/h4?
DV, H1B, TN, family immigration, adjusting from H1B to legal permanent resident all need to go away rapidly.
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