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OK, to be fair....I would like people who actually LIVE in California to say they are either OK with all of their tax dollars going to support illegal aliens, or NO they aren't happy with what the government is forcing them to comply with.
I think you would get more and better replies if you had not written "ALL of their tax dollars going to support illegal aliens". That is simply not true. I think better phrasing would be to say something like "a significant share".
California isn't as liberal and as accepting of illegal immigration as some people believe. It's a big state and the things that people from the outside read and get angry about are supported here mostly in the LA and San Francisco Bay areas. San Diego is very close to the Mexican border and is very conservative as are many other places in the state.
Just scanned the thread, and I very much recommend the book Mexifornia, written by Victor Hansen in 2002, to all California residents. Although the writer holds a PhD, this is NOT a dry statistics book but more of a series of opinions, based mostly on personal experiences. Dr. Hanson's ties to the Central Valley go back over 125 years, and he is one of the few writers on this subject who is neither a reactionary and racist nor an extreme liberal. His views are as balanced and objective as he can be, I think, and he shows sympathy to BOTH illegal aliens and the white Californians who are forced to tolerate so many people here illegally from Mexico (yes, the book concentrates almost entirely on Mexican immigrants) and also the fact that in many places and ways, the Mexican culture is overwhelming the Euro Anglo culture.
The book is somewhat hard to find, but the following summarizes what is in it, although this too is out of date.
Although the above article presents more of the anti-Mexican immigration viewpoint, in the book, Dr. Hanson blames "spoiled Americans" for a BIG part of the problem. As a fruit grower, Dr. Hanson said he was forced to hire illegal immigrants because American teens are no longer willing to do hard labor for their spending money, just as many well-off suburbanites are no longer willing to mow their own lawns or clean their own houses. He also states in the book that most Americans are willing to turn a blind eye to and accept the fact that so many uneducated people are doing the work they don't want to do, but what happens when these workers reach middle age and can no longer work?
Anyway, I lived in SoCal from 1963 until 1986, and the reason I left was in large part due to the overcrowding and increasing Mexican influence, and I am not one bit sorry. I truly think that if California again becomes part of Mexico, even though it would create some MAJOR problems for MANY people, it just might be worth it.
I live within walking distance of the existing border wall and a border patrol check point. I've been here since the late 1980s.
Back in the early 1990s, we used to have illegal aliens crossing our property all the time. They'd come in groups and walk right through our backyard. We were up all night with border patrol helicopters circling. That was horrible.
Then, President Bush built the existing border wall. That, and the border patrol check point that was added to our area, pretty much stopped the flow in our area. People no longer come through here by foot. Things are pretty much under control where I live now.
"Under control" means that I'm not seeing hordes of people crossing the border illegally where I live and haven't for some time. It doesn't mean that there aren't still people living here who are not legal. Of course, there's no way for me to tell just by looking at someone what their legal status is.
I did, however, work as a school counselor in local schools, so in that role, I have gotten to know a number of students whose parents brought them to the U.S. illegally. For the most part, the students that I have met are hard-working and good kids. Many of my former students did apply for DACA and have gone on to college (and no, their college wasn't paid for by Federal financial aid) and are now working (legally, under DACA). They not out murdering and raping people, selling drugs, or in a gang. By the way, Mexico was not the country of origin for many of these students. I met students from Canada, China, Thailand, Iraq, and other countries who did not have legal status. And, I have never met a student who crossed the border on foot. They all came on legal tourist visas with their parents and simply never went back. The arrived by plane, or by simply coming through the border crossing.
In any case, I don't have a problem with my tax dollars going to educate ANY student who is present in California. Educated students have a better chance of growing up to be self-supporting. Educating a student is cheaper than supporting them in jail. And, the Supreme Court has said that all students must have access to public education, even non-citizens. So, that is in compliance with the law. (I've mentioned previously that I wouldn't be opposed to charging parents or the countries of origin for education, but the Supreme Court has ruled that is not allowable).
To be clear: I don't condone illegal immigration. I've seen first hand in my own backyard what happens when it is allowed to run rampant. And, I know from personal experience that ultimately, the parents who brought their kids here illegally did them no favors in the long term; until DACA, they had very limited options after high school. (I have never blamed the kids for their situation; it is their parents' fault).
In terms of keeping illegal immigration under control, instead of spending billions on a bigger wall, I'd like to see the existing wall through California expanded and the border patrol's tools improved. I also think we need much better tracking of tourist visas; that is a real loop hole in our system, and as I said, most of the illegal aliens I have met have used that loop hole to come and stay. The fence has worked in my area -- extending its reach will work in other areas too.
On the flip side, I also do not have a problem with legal immigration. I would very much like to see more attention paid to fixing our legal immigration system; for instance, eliminate the lottery, streamline the application process, and improve vetting for visas. As I mentioned, also tighten tracking for visas.
Regarding Sessions' lawsuit, I agree that the state and cities should NOT be using taxpayer money to pay for legal defense for illegal aliens. That should be the responsibility of the individual OR the country where they originated from.
I also fully support law enforcement - from police and sheriffs to the FBI and border patrol. One misconception is that California is prohibiting law enforcement from cooperating with ICE. That is simply untrue. In my local area, local law enforcement works with the FBI and ICE on arrests when drug busts, murders, gang crimes, and other major crimes occur. I know this for a fact.
What Sessions and the President seem to want, however, is for local law enforcement to spend time and energy on hunting down all illegal residents. That shouldn't be the responsibility of local law enforcement and will, indeed, divert energies from other public safety issues that are more important. So, I don't really have a problem with individual cities saying that they don't want their LE to do that. (I do not live in a Sanctuary city).
Finally, I do think that employers should comply with Federal law regarding employee verification.
Just my take as someone who has lived in California for more than 30 years, but I personally don't feel that California is "over run" by illegals or immigrants (Mexican or others). I guess I am just weird but I like that California is and always has been a diverse place. I don't feel threatened by people who come from different backgrounds or cultures, or different races from mine. My own grandparents, who came from Ireland, Germany and Hungary, were treated that way when they arrived in the 1920s, and I just never understood why. Different is not the same as "bad."
I know this is a long and somewhat complicated response, but this IS a complicated issue with many levels. It is not as clear cut or simple as many think. In any case, this is my take on some of the issues I personally have experienced living in our great state of California. I love living here, and won't be moving away anytime soon. This is my home.
" In California, 1 in 10 workers is undocumented, approximately 3 million in all. They pay an estimated $3 billion in state and local taxes. They contribute $180 billion annually to our GDP." (source)
By my math if the undocs contribute $180 bil. but cost $134 bil., having illegals around are a net benefit of $46 bil per year.
Not only that, many illegals contribute to Soc Sec when it is automatically deducted from their paychecks. Unless there's a path to citizenship, that's money they will never collect. So, having illegals here helps to bolster the Soc Sec trust fund.
Illegals do work that Americans can't or refuse to do -- hotel maids, dishwashers, bus boys, farm hands, gardeners, etc. The ones that work hard and don't commit crime should be given amnesty and a path to citizenship, not scorn.
Let's talk about their contribution to SS. It would seem to me that if they are having SS and medicare taken from their paychecks than they are using a stolen SS number. Since they've taken on this identity - what's to stop them years down the road from collecting SS and medicare on that same stolen card?
This guy collected over $361,000 from the govt with a stolen ID - I'm sure he's not the only one!
No, I didn't. I don't pay much attention to the dude. His responses are as predictable as they are silly.
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Listened to Jeff Sessions.
Ditto.
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So bottom line to all of you from California. How DO YOU FEEL about illegal aliens living in your state?
Deport them all. My wife waited for years before being granted a U.S. visa to come here legally from China (that was long before she met me), now she is a naturalized American citizen. The illegals are stealing time in this superior country, that she couldn't because SHE OBEYED THE LAW and did it right.
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How do you feel about hiding them from ICE. What do you REALLY think about Sanctuary Cities?
The basic job of the Federal government is to protect us against enemies foreign and domestic. The California government is working hard to become the latter. And they are succeeding.
The conclusion is left as an exercise for the class.
The conclusion is left as an exercise for the class.
Well- part and parcel of the conclusion is the tendency of the newer Fed. Admin. to create chaos instead of solving problems. Heck, they promised to clamp down on pot users again! And they are talking about new Wars on Drugs, etc.
Best Buy is now in league with the FBI to scan your computer for porn or ANYTHING illegal that might be on there.
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps states are fearful of the loose cannon that is in the WH and would rather just wait it out until we have reasonable leadership again?
As to how people feel, I have a family member who lives in the Bay Area - and many friends from back in the day who live there also. They would never leave. They love it. Some of them do go to Hawaii if they have the $$$....
Let's talk about their contribution to SS. It would seem to me that if they are having SS and medicare taken from their paychecks than they are using a stolen SS number. Since they've taken on this identity - what's to stop them years down the road from collecting SS and medicare on that same stolen card?
I think you are wrong here.
They are paying in and 95% plus of them will never see a cent from it. You should thank them. It's free money for SS and Medicare.
Just scanned the thread, and I very much recommend the book Mexifornia, written by Victor Hansen in 2002, to all California residents. Although the writer holds a PhD, this is NOT a dry statistics book but more of a series of opinions, based mostly on personal experiences. Dr. Hanson's ties to the Central Valley go back over 125 years, and he is one of the few writers on this subject who is neither a reactionary and racist nor an extreme liberal. His views are as balanced and objective as he can be, I think, and he shows sympathy to BOTH illegal aliens and the white Californians who are forced to tolerate so many people here illegally from Mexico (yes, the book concentrates almost entirely on Mexican immigrants) and also the fact that in many places and ways, the Mexican culture is overwhelming the Euro Anglo culture.
The book is somewhat hard to find, but the following summarizes what is in it, although this too is out of date.
Although the above article presents more of the anti-Mexican immigration viewpoint, in the book, Dr. Hanson blames "spoiled Americans" for a BIG part of the problem. As a fruit grower, Dr. Hanson said he was forced to hire illegal immigrants because American teens are no longer willing to do hard labor for their spending money, just as many well-off suburbanites are no longer willing to mow their own lawns or clean their own houses. He also states in the book that most Americans are willing to turn a blind eye to and accept the fact that so many uneducated people are doing the work they don't want to do, but what happens when these workers reach middle age and can no longer work?
Anyway, I lived in SoCal from 1963 until 1986, and the reason I left was in large part due to the overcrowding and increasing Mexican influence, and I am not one bit sorry. I truly think that if California again becomes part of Mexico, even though it would create some MAJOR problems for MANY people, it just might be worth it.
Although I agree with you, I don't think they will stop at over taking AZ, CA, and TX. They have already demonstrated that there is never enough tax dollars for them to steal. Have you been following how they are now permitted to vote in several states?
What would the Mexican government do if those illegals stopped sending American dollars to them. They come here for a free ride and then support Mexico.
I don't like some of what President Trump does, but he is the one we need in this time in history as that other choice, and her thugs, are part of the problem, not the solution. I don't know many others who would stand up for Americans like Trump is doing. If we don't stand up for America, what will we stand for?
They are paying in and 95% plus of them will never see a cent from it. You should thank them. It's free money for SS and Medicare.
You are not answering the question I asked
"Unauthorized workers usually demonstrate their employment eligibility with fake IDs and fake social security numbers. Once hired, these “questionably documented” workers, as Michael calls them, end up on the payroll and have taxes automatically taken out of their checks, like any other employee. That money then goes to the federal treasury to fund programs like Social Security and Medicare."
What's to stop them from collecting SS benefits on these fake IDs
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