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Old 05-06-2018, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,439,796 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Whose property then?
The public sphere (not the state).
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,439,796 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
What utter bullsh*t you say. The owners swap $$$ to those able and willing to exchange it for labor, which is power in and of itself. Open your other eye, you only seeming half the picture.
Working FOR someone to survive is slavery.

Worker-employer relationships aren’t equal, they are based on the understanding that one person owns the labor and the other has no control.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,439,796 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I'm not saying its going to either. Since I am a democratic socialist I am willing to work inside a democracy to pass common sense regulations to reign in the power of the wealthy, but I certainly don't think getting rid of capitalism will ever happen.
You agree with worker Co-operatives, right?

Once worker management becomes wide scale the need for stock markets and ownership/equity will collapse on its self.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,439,796 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Downright scary. Thank God it's so fringe that it make anarcho-capitalism seem mainstream and will never occur.

Based solely on controlling people and you as king.
There are no kings. Go to Chiapas and meet with the working class Zapatistas; people there produce what they are able to, to their own abilities. The environment is healthy without corporate pollutants and the what not.

You’d love it Recess, it’s the best model for personal freedoms.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
There are no kings. Go to Chiapas and meet with the working class Zapatistas; people there produce what they are able to, to their own abilities. The environment is healthy without corporate pollutants and the what not.

You’d love it Recess, it’s the best model for personal freedoms.
No thanks.

I've already lived in poverty inside of a war zone with multiple Statist factions trying to control it.

It's hell.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The bold is correct.

The rest is wrong, you don’t own something that is physically external to you. If we allow for that to be defended only a few will come to power for those who control the external resources control the working class.
If not for my mind and labor the hammer I made from scratch would not exist. Therefore it's mine.

That's how you know when you own something.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,943,941 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You agree with worker Co-operatives, right?

Once worker management becomes wide scale the need for stock markets and ownership/equity will collapse on its self.
I certainly agree with and support them but realistically I think fighting for a preservation of social security and pushing for universal healthcare are more realistic goals.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Working FOR someone to survive is slavery.

Worker-employer relationships aren’t equal, they are based on the understanding that one person owns the labor and the other has no control.
Says the king!

I have two employees. They both make more decisions than I or the other co-owner do. One actually makes more money than I do because he prefers to get the bulk of his compensation via standard check every two weeks.

That means Uncle Sam takes a big fat bite out of his a-ss every 14 days. I hide all my money as much as possible.

If you asked him if he felt exploited by me he'd laugh at you. If you asked him if he felt exploited by Sammy he'd say hell yes.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,944 posts, read 2,943,941 times
Reputation: 3805
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
\If you asked him if he felt exploited by Sammy he'd say hell yes.
Well thats his problem for being uneducated about how taxation works. Its also his problem that he fails to see how much he benefits from public infrastructure and public servants whose job it is to protect him so he can go out and make money.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,382,061 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I'm not saying its going to either. Since I am a democratic socialist I am willing to work inside a democracy to pass common sense regulations to reign in the power of the wealthy, but I certainly don't think getting rid of capitalism will ever happen.
Capitalism has never happened. People who are non-violent and who believe in the free exchange of goods/services have existed but with States around...even just one...they are unable to completely fulfill a capitalist lifestyle.

We've had enclaves of societies that were very close to it (namely Celtic Ireland) but close is for horse shoes and hand grenades when it comes to capitalism.
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