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Due process isn't out the window. Due process isn't being denied to anyone. Nobody is being deprived of life or liberty. Immediate removal of illegal entrants is keeping them out of the process altogether.
Due process isn't changing and I've posted the actual text of the 5th Amendment so please point out the part that is being violated.
You are right about that. Just because Trump stands on a podium and declares that due process is no longer needed, that it is some antiquated concept - does not mean it will ever come to pass. As usual he just splatters garbage on the wall to see it any of it will stick. Rhetoric like this fires up his base - that is the whole purpose.
Ahh, we should just abolish our borders then right? You want to talk about "fear-mongering"? Have you watched Pelosi,Watters their buddies Anti-Faaaa and all the other radical leftists lately? Have you listened to many on the left in the news, hell, even on here bleating and blathering about every little move the other side makes and how it's going to destroy the world?
C'mon, take off your liberal blinders and see that you're being manipulated, especially on this ILLEGAL issue.
You wouldn't let people break into your house and take up residence without recourse would you? WELL???
Same freaking thing...
Yes, indeed no one would in their right mind, then why would they want to do the same with illegals?
What really gets to me, is the whole past 16 years, no one did anything or said anything when Bush and Obama had people arrested and took their kids into custody, especially the liberal media. They protected Obama, there wasn't anything he did that was wrong in their eyes....Corporate Establishment, boy you couldn't pay me to go to Disney. What traitors they are.
And the fact that it's the law doesn't matter to anyone, not even the left politicians...and the right isn't any better, but they are scared for their jobs, b/c they watched us vote in Trump.
The thing is, they all hate Trump, thanks to the media, and thanks to the media, it doesn't get any better for police officers....crazy how this world thinks it's ok to break laws isn't it....
and when all else fails, throw bible verses and Jesus at us...
And how many innocent people have been convicted in court with due process? When you're dealing with tens of thousands, there may well be a few mistakes that slip through. Do you let that dictate everything? Shall we stop sentencing convicted rapists to prison because DNA has later proven a few were innocent? Show me a perfect system.
you need to ask for a refund from whatever internet law school you went to. Because all of that made zero sense. Due process does not even mean what you seem to think it does. Due process does not mean that a jury can't find a person guilty because they might be proven innocent at a later time. It describes a guarantee of a lawful, fair and unbiased process.
Quote:
due process of law
n. a fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal, especially in the courts. All legal procedures set by statute and court practice, including notice of rights, must be followed for each individual so that no prejudicial or unequal treatment will result. While somewhat indefinite, the term can be gauged by its aim to safeguard both private and public rights against unfairness. The universal guarantee of due process is in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which provides "No person shall…be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law," and is applied to all states by the 14th Amendment. From this basic principle flows many legal decisions determining both procedural and substantive rights.
What happened to the thread on returning illegals immediately?
Any way, for those yapping about due process, here is the text of the 5th Amendment, known as the Due Process amendment. No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Now, if we catch an illegal entrant and dump them back on the other side of the border, what part of this amendment has been violated? Nothing about immediately returning an illegal entrant to other side of the border violates any part of this amendment. None. They have not been deprived of anything except their ill-gotten attempt to reside here illegally.
You can't deport someone unless you've proven they are in the US unlawfully. Without a hearing to determine that, how do you know whether you are deporting a person with a green card, a tourist visa or even a US Citizen? Almost 1500 citizens have been arrested and detained by ICE since 2012, but they were allowed court hearings during which they were able to establish their citizenship and at that time they were released, without due process they basically would have been banished to another country with no process for returning to the US.
You can't deport someone unless you've proven they are in the US unlawfully. Without a hearing to determine that, how do you know whether you are deporting a person with a green card, a tourist visa or even a US Citizen? Almost 1500 citizens have been arrested and detained by ICE since 2012, but they were allowed court hearings during which they were able to establish their citizenship and at that time they were released, without due process they basically would have been banished to another country with no process for returning to the US.
It's kind of obvious when they're sneaking over the border nowhere near a port of entry. It's kind of obvious when asked for any documentation and they have NONE that they're not here legally. It's kind of obvious when asked why they're here they claim asylum because their husband was mean to them.
Sorry, no due process needed other than toss 'em back from whence they came.
At this point in time ANY person headed to the U.S. (unless you've lived under a rock or been deaf/dumb for life or are mentally challenged absolutely KNOWS how to enter properly and they absolutely KNOW when they're sneaking in and that it's ILLEGAL.
At this point in time everyone with a Visa or Green Card KNOWS that they are required to carry it just like you're required to carry your drivers license when driving or your passport to identify yourself when in another country.
you need to ask for a refund from whatever internet law school you went to. Because all of that made zero sense. Due process does not even mean what you seem to think it does. Due process does not mean that a jury can't find a person guilty because they might be proven innocent at a later time. It describes a guarantee of a lawful, fair and unbiased process.
That was in response to someone trying to bash deportations because a citizen got caught up in a sweep and the point is that a rare mistake does not justify tossing out the whole process. In fact, you are supporting my point that a bad outcome does not mean due process was not there. There is no perfect system.
Please show in the Constitution where it says NON-Citizens have any/all said rights?
How do you know someone is a non-citizen without due process?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj
My comments in Red. Your and others biggest problem, you're purposely mixing LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants together so as to demonize all those against ILLEGAL immigrants.
They are NOT the same.
How do you know what is illegal without due process?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj
And there you have it folks, when there's no logical argument it always returns to left's standard argument it's raaaaaaaaaaacist.
Arresting and detaining criminals (illegals) is now somehow raaaaaaacist. That's the best argument you've got which is really sad...
Arresting and detaining criminals is not racist.
Though it can be
This administration is repeatedly racist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj
Ahh, we should just abolish our borders then right? You want to talk about "fear-mongering"? Have you watched Pelosi,Watters their buddies Anti-Faaaa and all the other radical leftists lately? Have you listened to many on the left in the news, hell, even on here bleating and blathering about every little move the other side makes and how it's going to destroy the world?
C'mon, take off your liberal blinders and see that you're being manipulated, especially on this ILLEGAL issue.
You wouldn't let people break into your house and take up residence without recourse would you? WELL???
Same freaking thing...
Love the lack of self-awareness here.
I wouldn't let the government decide who can and can't be in my house. The government might decide you could be in my house. I wouldn't want that.
Good thing countries aren't like houses no matter how many times people without rational arguments try to make that analogy.
You can't deport someone unless you've proven they are in the US unlawfully. Without a hearing to determine that, how do you know whether you are deporting a person with a green card, a tourist visa or even a US Citizen? Almost 1500 citizens have been arrested and detained by ICE since 2012, but they were allowed court hearings during which they were able to establish their citizenship and at that time they were released, without due process they basically would have been banished to another country with no process for returning to the US.
We are talking about immediate removals of illegal entrants caught crossing the border. Caught in the act. Most of whom don't even claim to be authorized, once informed that fraudulently claiming to be a citizen is another charge.
Try running into a restricted area at an airport and see if they conduct an extensive investigation before physically removing you from the restricted area. I mean, how do they know you aren't an undercover air marshall testing their security? You'll have about 15 seconds to whip out some documentation proving it. And if they decide to let you go with a warning, they aren't going to let you go in the restricted area.
It's kind of obvious when they're sneaking over the border nowhere near a port of entry. It's kind of obvious when asked for any documentation and they have NONE that they're not here legally. It's kind of obvious when asked why they're here they claim asylum because their husband was mean to them.
Sorry, no due process needed other than toss 'em back from whence they came.
At this point in time ANY person headed to the U.S. (unless you've lived under a rock or been deaf/dumb for life or are mentally challenged absolutely KNOWS how to enter properly and they absolutely KNOW when they're sneaking in and that it's ILLEGAL.
At this point in time everyone with a Visa or Green Card KNOWS that they are required to carry it just like you're required to carry your drivers license when driving or your passport to identify yourself when in another country.
"kind of obvious" can give rise to detention and a court hearing, not immediate deportation. And regarding your last sentence, as far as I know a citizen is not required to carry any ID with them or did we pass a national ID law when I wasn't looking?
Quote:
Since 2012, ICE has released from its custody more than 1,480 people after investigating their citizenship claims, according to agency figures. And a Times review of Department of Justice records and interviews with immigration attorneys uncovered hundreds of additional cases in the country’s immigration courts in which people were forced to prove they are Americans and sometimes spent months or even years in detention.
With that kind of error rate you want to give ICE the authority to just start tossing people out of the US because it's "kind of obvious"?
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