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Old 05-22-2018, 06:16 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Gilead
12,716 posts, read 7,819,196 times
Reputation: 11338

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Ultimately, God is in control. And if He wants the planet to heat up, it will. If He wants it to cool, it will cool. It doesn't mean we should be bad stewards of our resources - but will it help control the atmosphere? I don't think so... but I am watching.

And this is the dominant belief among Trump supporters.

Amazing that it's 2018 and most Americans trust a 3500 year old religious tome written by goat herders who believed in talking snakes than they do scientists.
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Old 05-22-2018, 06:20 PM
 
8,059 posts, read 3,948,281 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
And this is the dominant belief among Trump supporters.

Amazing that it's 2018 and most Americans trust a 3500 year old religious tome written by goat herders who believed in talking snakes than they do scientists.
The goat herders didn't surround themselves with postmodernists.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:13 PM
 
5,888 posts, read 3,228,419 times
Reputation: 5548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Although Alaska fossil fuel exports comprise 85% of their economy they are addressing the impact and leading the way in green energy to reduce the impact of climate change. The melting of the permafrost and loss of shoreline is a severe problem, relocation of 31 towns and cities not to mention all the infrastructure being impacted. Quite a different response than some states like Florida where you cant even use the words "climate change".



https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/c...te-change.html
They wouldn't have any issues over relocation if they didn't have all these stubborn Eskimo insisting on kicking around on a bunch of crappy bog land just because they think their ancestors lived there forever (which they didn't).

They created their own problem. In the real world, the Eskimo people were more adaptable than this.
If the herds or the fish stopped coming they moved on. When you live off the land you live where you can. Or you die.

But modern Eskimo have been spoiled by the white mans welfare so when the ground starts to liquefy under their feet , now they want to stay, even though they will have the same easy lazy life that the white man pays for, anywhere they move to. They can still sit around and drink and fish and hunt and beat their wives and work once in a while.

They don't HAVE to stay and try to live in what is going to be a marsh and then eventually reclaimed by the sea.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
5,671 posts, read 4,355,463 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The melting of the permafrost and loss of shoreline also happened during the previous Inter-Glacial Period, when global temperatures were 10.4° F higher than present. And, in fact, it happens during every Inter-Glacial Period.

Encampments and villages had to be relocated then, too.

It's unfortunate Earth's inhabitants did not have a written language to record such events, or otherwise mark the extent of sea-level rise with piles of rocks or large rocks with paintings or obelisks and such for posterity's sake.

It's best to let the Free Market deal with the situation.

Lenders will eventually stop issuing mortgages for sea-side and coastal properties.

As the cost of flood insurance rises, property owners, who are by and large overwhelmingly exorbitantly wealthy will be forced to abandon their properties.

The lenders will call the notes on those mortgages for property owners who cannot afford the increasing costs of flood insurance, or those who have had their flood insurance canceled, since a flood-rider is a prerequisite or condition for granting the mortgage and the failure to maintain a flood-rider constitutes a breach of contract.

Coastal cities and counties will also experience a loss of revenues generated by sales taxes, property taxes and other local taxes.

It won't all happen in one day, rather it will occur over many decades, so as to be barely imperceptible.

We were somewhat recently coming out of an inter-glacial period. That's probably not why most global warming is happening now though.


Note that over short periods of time, energy can be exchanged between the Earth's oceans and surface air through natural cycles such as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, which can result in a short-term warming of the surface oceans and air at the expense of a cooling of the deeper oceans, or vice-versa. However, these cycles oscillate between positive and negative states, which over the long-term cancel each other out and do not cause significant temperature trends. These oscillations neither create nor retain heat; they simply move it around and thus physically cannot cause global warming or cooling. Further, if these cycles were causing the surface to warm, they would be causing the oceans to cool, which is the opposite of what we observe.
There are many different factors which can cause a planetary energy imbalance. Some of the most common examples are changes in solar activity, atmospheric greenhouse gases, volcanic activity, the Earth's overall reflectivity, and variations in the Earth's orbit around the Sun (also known as 'Milankovitch cycles'). However, the key point is that the planet will not warm or cool over the long-term unless there is a radiative forcing causing a planetary energy imbalance. Thus the planet will not warm simply because it had previously cooled, and the notion that the planet is just "recovering" from the LIA makes no physical sense.


Little Ice Age Causes
Therefore, the only way the current warming could be because "we're coming out of the LIA" would be if whatever caused the energy imbalance resulting in the LIA cooling had since changed state to cause a positive radiative forcing, thus resulting in the global warming we've observed over the past century. Climate scientists have proposed numerous factors which likely contributed to the global cooling of the LIA.


https://skepticalscience.com/coming-...e-advanced.htm


So...for the Earth to become warmer (globally) it needs to either be receiving more energy, or be keeping more energy from escaping. It might receive more energy from more solar activity. It might store more energy through more of certain gasses like C02. It might also reflect more energy, to become cooler.

The sun was less active during the little ice age, which resulted in Earth getting less energy from it, but it hasn't increased its temperature output since the mid-20th century, so that's not the cause of global warming.

Volcanic activity often has a cooling effect on the Earth, but that's continued to have a cooling effect on the Earth.

So...from what I understand, about the only factor left that can explain our planet's average warming temperatures is human-produced factors such as C02, which are rising dramatically:
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Now, how do we know Earth's average temperature is rising?

https://www.ucsusa.org/global-warmin...g#.WwTmc_ZFyUk


So far as I understand, at least.

But really...we really need to just trust the liberal side of things every time we're talking about anything related to psychology or science until we have good reason to believe they're wrong. I'm not being snarky when I say that either. That's just the sad truth. The conservative side of things lies a lot, because they're trying to placate the theocrats who are swarming throughout their organization...seriously.

Trust the liberal side of things until they're shown to be wrong, whenever the topic involves psychology or science. Distrust the conservative side of things until they're shown to be right, whenever the topic involves psychology or science. View every single source of information with the word God in it as a negative source of information that you don't trust until you find 2 sources of information without the word God in them that tell the same information.

That's just the sad truth that experience has taught me. Following that advice will save everyone a lot of time. I'm not saying the left is to be trusted more than the right in other areas...but they're almost always the more correct when it comes to science and psychology, because they lack the swarms of theocrats.

I don't think leaving things up to the free market is going to accomplish squat, or they would have changed by now. I'm pretty confident that the question we should be asking is what kind of government intervention we're going to have.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:19 PM
 
4,336 posts, read 1,556,840 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Although Alaska fossil fuel exports comprise 85% of their economy they are addressing the impact and leading the way in green energy to reduce the impact of climate change. The melting of the permafrost and loss of shoreline is a severe problem, relocation of 31 towns and cities not to mention all the infrastructure being impacted. Quite a different response than some states like Florida where you cant even use the words "climate change".





https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/15/c...te-change.html
Climate change is inevitable, mankind or no mankind.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:22 PM
 
5,717 posts, read 3,148,787 times
Reputation: 7374
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
nearly everyone else acknowledges that manmade climate change is real and that this debate is over.
Ummm. No, they don't.
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,314 posts, read 26,236,916 times
Reputation: 15650
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
They wouldn't have any issues over relocation if they didn't have all these stubborn Eskimo insisting on kicking around on a bunch of crappy bog land just because they think their ancestors lived there forever (which they didn't).

They created their own problem. In the real world, the Eskimo people were more adaptable than this.
If the herds or the fish stopped coming they moved on. When you live off the land you live where you can. Or you die.

But modern Eskimo have been spoiled by the white mans welfare so when the ground starts to liquefy under their feet , now they want to stay, even though they will have the same easy lazy life that the white man pays for, anywhere they move to. They can still sit around and drink and fish and hunt and beat their wives and work once in a while.

They don't HAVE to stay and try to live in what is going to be a marsh and then eventually reclaimed by the sea.
The Eskimos were doing quite fine until the climate change came along, many poor people around the world will be impacted and it will cause an exodus of refugees and a destabilization of civilized countries.
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,314 posts, read 26,236,916 times
Reputation: 15650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-D View Post
Climate change is inevitable, mankind or no mankind.
We are able to deal with slow changes to the environment when there was a million people on the planet, this is rapid and there are several billion people and almost have live within a few miles of the oceans.
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,122 posts, read 5,596,621 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
-------so as to be barely imperceptible.

The malaprop of the day.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:09 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,005 posts, read 12,600,110 times
Reputation: 8925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The melting of the permafrost and loss of shoreline also happened during the previous Inter-Glacial Period, when global temperatures were 10.4° F higher than present. And, in fact, it happens during every Inter-Glacial Period.

Encampments and villages had to be relocated then, too.
See Doggerland
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