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I agree with you, but it was ruled the bakery was in the right not make a cake for a gay wedding (I was pretty surprised), but I do not see that as extending to not serving gays in general, though I didn't read much on the court ruling.
Let's be clear about the scope of the ruling: the Court found the state of Colorado was hostile toward his religion in their reasoning. Had Colorado ruled against the baker without being so openly hostile to his religious beliefs, the Court may have ruled in Colorado's favor. So the Court chickened out by finding in favor of the baker while still leaving the fundamental question unanswered, meaning we haven't heard the last on this issue. Maybe they'll agree to hear Arlene's Flowers Inc. v. Washington and give a more definitive answer.
I agree with you, but it was ruled the bakery was in the right not make a cake for a gay wedding (I was pretty surprised), but I do not see that as extending to not serving gays in general, though I didn't read much on the court ruling.
The ruling was very narrow.
I still don't agree with it, and it seems to have embolden at least one store owner, who can possibly get away with it because the law is lacking in Tennessee.
Here in Canada, sexual orientation is a protected class federally. Having federal protection makes it simple and easy for everyone.
This is how it works here. A case I remember. I think it was a fair decision.
"The Riverbend was not operated by a Church or religious organization. While the business was operated by individuals with sincere religious beliefs respecting same-sex couples, and out of a portion of their personal residence, it was still a commercial activity. It was the Molnars’ personal and voluntary choice to start up a business in their personal residence. In this respect, the Molnars were not compelled by the state to act in a manner inconsistent with their personal religious views."
Not really. That's a bizarre interpretation that's much more wishful thinking than fact.
As has already been noted, THIS is the bar SCOTUS has set to be cleared, which when you think about it logically... cannot be done:
Kennedy, in the ruling:
"The government, consistent with the Constitution's guarantee of free exercise, cannot impose regulations that are hostile to the religious beliefs of affected citizens and cannot act in a manner that passes judgment upon or presupposes the illegitimacy of religious beliefs and practices"
The crucial point is that in the US, Constitutional Rights supercede state law. That's why it's a fool's errand to pursue any of those laws at the state or local level. US Congress has attempted several times to pass a Federal Law, but it never makes it out of committee. Why? Because such a law would be unConstitutional at least some of the time, and would thus be stricken.
What a lot of you are missing is that BOTH parties were claiming rights. The baker: Constitutional Rights. The same-sex couple: rights conveyed by a state law.
The problem with that for the couple? The US Constitution's Supremacy Clause.
"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
That is EXACTLY why I said this was a slam dunk for the baker in the original thread last year. And it was.
OT. Back to it. Tell me precisely HOW these "no gays allowed" business owners are going to tell if a patron is gay or not? Do they have some kind of meter to detect this?
Two business people come in with a client of the same gender? Must be gay? Two same gender coworkers? Gay too? Of course two women with short hair, pants, and big shirts lunching together must be gay also? Right?
"Boys or Girls Nights Out? Multiple people of all the same gender? Who might be gay and who isn't? We mothers have done with this with our adult daughters. Who is gay and who isn't? We all have wedding rings on our fingers? Can you tell who is married to a man or woman? In our case, we Moms took all four of our daughters out for two of their anniversary. Married to each other. Maybe they would think my daughter and I were a gay couple by the way we dress? Sorry, but I have been married to her MALE Dad for 44 years, but at 70 years old I cannot be bothered with long hair, makeup, and dresses.
Jim Crow? Well, even back in those days there were many "colored" people could pass as white. How many gay people today can "pass" as straight. You have you work cut out for you, bigots.
Not really. That's a bizarre interpretation that's much more wishful thinking than fact.
As has already been noted, THIS is the bar SCOTUS has set to be cleared, which when you think about it logically... cannot be done:
Kennedy, in the ruling:
"The government, consistent with the Constitution's guarantee of free exercise, cannot impose regulations that are hostile to the religious beliefs of affected citizens and cannot act in a manner that passes judgment upon or presupposes the illegitimacy of religious beliefs and practices"
The crucial point is that in the US, Constitutional Rights supercede state law. That's why it's a fool's errand to pursue any of those laws at the state or local level. US Congress has attempted several times to pass a Federal Law, but it never makes it out of committee. Why? Because such a law would be unConstitutional at least some of the time, and would thus be stricken.
What a lot of you are missing is that BOTH parties were claiming rights. The baker: Constitutional Rights. The same-sex couple: rights conveyed by a state law.
The problem with that for the couple? The US Constitution's Supremacy Clause.
"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
That is EXACTLY why I said this was a slam dunk for the baker in the original thread last year. And it was.
And the problem with their reasoning is they left the door open for states to compel artists to create art for people they don't want to as long as they're not "hostile" to the artist's religious beliefs in the process. As a free speech matter, artists shouldn't have to create art for ANYONE if they don't want to, no matter what their reason is for not wanting to do it.
1. Gay is a behavior, not a innate characteristic.
I am a lesbian. The following are my "behaviors", my "lifestyle" if you will. In the morning I stumble into the kitchen to make coffee, because I don't function too well with out it. After a cup of "OMFG coffee" (and the vibrations subside) I read a few chapters of what ever book of the Bible I'm working through (Acts, presently). After that I take care of hygiene necessities, so I don't smell bad. After that I might watch some TV. After that I jump online to check emails, and visit all of you fine people. On both sides. HAHA. After that I am on FB talking to friends, and working with a local journalist who is writing a story about issues affecting the trans community (though, statistically there are only about five of us or so in my county. I am also trans). And posting silly cat videos. And trolling my sister (it's a form of rickrolling, except with that "blue" song by Eiffel 65, she hates that song...so I post it on her wall. It's sort of forced penance for driving me nuts when she was younger). I also play video games, because I'm a geek, and that's what we do. I pray often, sometimes I'll pray while I'm out walking. I'm very active in my church. Those are my "behaviors" my "lifestyle. Being a transgender lesbian is something I never would have chosen. Finding love and acceptance has been very difficult. But Christ is with me and He never promised us an easy life. I was born this way. I resisted this most of my life, which led to heavy drug use and many suicide attempts. After I accepted Christ, and that leading to accepting myself, my entire being changed. Even though things are hard, I have a joy and peace now that I can't explain or describe. This may not be natural or God's design for you, but it is for me.
OT. Back to it. Tell me precisely HOW these "no gays allowed" business owners are going to tell if a patron is gay or not? Do they have some kind of meter to detect this?
Two business people come in with a client of the same gender? Must be gay? Two same gender coworkers? Gay too? Of course two women with short hair, pants, and big shirts lunching together must be gay also? Right?
"Boys or Girls Nights Out? Multiple people of all the same gender? Who might be gay and who isn't? We mothers have done with this with our adult daughters. Who is gay and who isn't? We all have wedding rings on our fingers? Can you tell who is married to a man or woman? In our case, we Moms took all four of our daughters out for two of their anniversary. Married to each other. Maybe they would think my daughter and I were a gay couple by the way we dress? Sorry, but I have been married to her MALE Dad for 44 years, but at 70 years old I cannot be bothered with long hair, makeup, and dresses.
Jim Crow? Well, even back in those days there were many "colored" people could pass as white. How many gay people today can "pass" as straight. You have you work cut out for you, bigots.
Since the case in question is a hardware store, maybe the cretin of an owner thinks gays will be strutting in demanding pink hammers or some other inanity. Truly, he sounds like he's as dumb as a bag of hammers himself, so I wouldn't doubt it.
I am totally with you on that end. I don't care if you come into my restaurant wearing a pink tutu and bedroom slippers. As long as you are within the parameters of the dress code, i.e. No shirt, no shoes, no service, then I don't care who you are or what you do. I will serve you just like anyone else, and thank you for the business when our transaction is done. The same goes for my carpentry company. I will build whatever a customer wants, and I don't care about that person's personal life, preferences, etc. I am in business to make money, and money is the same no matter who is paying.
Oh really? And with that I'm off to the costume shop and a few party supply stores. I shall return...
To those other posters about gay clubs. As a young woman I had a very close male gay friend. We went out together many times, including to male gay clubs. Did they stop me from coming inside as FEMALE? Of course not. While there were not very many women in these clubs, there were some. Male gays could not bring in their female friends or relatives????? My friend was a musician. I wanted to see him perform. The other musicians weren't in the same situation? Many times when the club was very crowded he would put his arm around me and steer me through the crowd. Does that mean we were lovers? Damn, I even had my Dad do this with me as an adult woman. Nothing sexual about that.
Yes, my lesbian daughter has taken me to gay bars when she was younger and unmarried (to her wife). Nobody thought anything of it. In fact I was very WELCOMED. Your MOM is here!!!!! How are you? Wonderful to meet you. Your daughter looks just like you.
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