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I agree that, with the exception of trauma surgeons, doctors are definitely grossly overpaid compared to the results they actually produce. For such a highly paid profession, the amount of cures we have for very common and devastating diseases are paltry. I include medical researchers in this lot as well, and its likely that they deserve even more blame for the stagnation in medical cures, since medical doctors can only use the tools they're given. With the absurd amount that we invest in research for medical advancements, how is it that our life expectancy is actually going down, not up? And this is in a first world nation. If our medical advancements are this stagnant in the U.S. after the decades we've been funding billions of dollars for medical research, then medical care in non first world countries must be nearly the equivalent of witch doctoring. And no, falling life expectancies arent all due to the "opioid crisis"..there are legitimate increases in the mortality rates from cancers, heart disease, diabetes, etc.
I dont have a problem with doctors making alot of money, but it needs to be merit based and part of that merit based pay should be to produce improvements in average life expectancy, and to produce cures for many more diseases than what exists today. Without that, Im not sure doctors should be making any more than a nurse. Otherwise, we're just paying them a lot of money to be smart without that intelligence having any real world application outside of being brilliant students in med school.
I literally dont know the last time I went to a doctor who actually fixed a problem, let alone cured anything yet they collect their $200 basically just for shaking my hand.
Aside from trauma surgeons, being a doctor, even a good doctor, should not automatically yield high income. Research which yields cures (not "management techniques", "treatment methods" or "therapies", or whatever other non cure) that dont maim or kill the patient, and increases in life expectancy should be the focus of the compensation system.
The problem is relieving debt. No one will be a doctor for $100k per year with the insane hours and $500k worth of student loans. The entire way the US trains physicians needs to be completely overhauled. Why do they waste so much time in undergrad that burdens them with student loans? Medical a hope training ahould begin immediately after high school and if you can't fit in all of the science because undergrad is cut out then make class year round with no summer breaks and tack on a 5th year if needed. That should be more than enough time to complete all of the science and rotations needed to get a MD. School should also be 100% tax payer subsidized because training physicians is absolutely both a national security concern and a major public health issue. When you have younger physicians who aren't burdened with massive debt I bet there'd be much more candidates willing to take a solid middle class salary of $125-150k to be a PCP. NYU has now made medical school 100% free to relieve the crushing burden on newly minted docs.
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Don't forget that medical office overheads have climbed the last 30 years for docs just like any typical business. Where reimbursement have stagnated just like the bulk of the middle class.
This is pretty close for a primary care office doc:
I agree that, with the exception of trauma surgeons, doctors are definitely grossly overpaid compared to the results they actually produce. For such a highly paid profession, the amount of cures we have for very common and devastating diseases are paltry. I include medical researchers in this lot as well, and its likely that they deserve even more blame for the stagnation in medical cures, since medical doctors can only use the tools they're given. With the absurd amount that we invest in research for medical advancements, how is it that our life expectancy is actually going down, not up? And this is in a first world nation. If our medical advancements are this stagnant in the U.S. after the decades we've been funding billions of dollars for medical research, then medical care in non first world countries must be nearly the equivalent of witch doctoring. And no, falling life expectancies arent all due to the "opioid crisis"..there are legitimate increases in the mortality rates from cancers, heart disease, diabetes, etc.
I dont have a problem with doctors making alot of money, but it needs to be merit based and part of that merit based pay should be to produce improvements in average life expectancy, and to produce cures for many more diseases than what exists today. Without that, Im not sure doctors should be making any more than a nurse. Otherwise, we're just paying them a lot of money to be smart without that intelligence having any real world application outside of being brilliant students in med school.
I literally dont know the last time I went to a doctor who actually fixed a problem, let alone cured anything yet they collect their $200 basically just for shaking my hand.
Aside from trauma surgeons, being a doctor, even a good doctor, should not automatically yield high income. Research which yields cures (not "management techniques", "treatment methods" or "therapies", or whatever other non cure) that dont maim or kill the patient, and increases in life expectancy should be the focus of the compensation system.
You are completely leaving out half of the equation: the patient. A major factor in the drop in life expectancy in the US is obesity. How do you factor patients who will not follow medical advice into the compensation system?
Your thesis that mortality from all of those is increasing is false.
Why must there be a cure for everything? If my high blood pressure can be "managed" with an inexpensive, effective drug with no side effects - and it is - I do not care whether it is "cured" or not.
Curing many conditions would require changing our genes, and that isn't going to happen any time soon.
Why just trauma surgeons? Pediatric oncologists cured my son's leukemia and saved his life. His life expectancy was a few months without treatment, which has gained him 29 years and counting. A savvy internist was suspicious of my father's "indigestion" and got an EKG. Bypass surgery gained him a significant number of enjoyable years. A general surgeon saved my life when I had a small bowel obstruction. Another life expectancy extended. Anecdotal? Yes, but that is just my family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
From what I understand we have a shortage of new doctors, spurring this:
NYU Medical School Plans Free Tuition For Those Studying To Be Doctors
That does not really increase the number of doctors, it just relieves them of debt and gives those with fewer financial resources the opportunity to attend.
For those of us living closer to the Mexican Border, we don't give a hoot if they pay them a million a year. There's plenty of specialists across the Border who will see you for a fraction of the cost of Dr. in the U.S., and they're just as competent. Been doing it for years now!
One of the reasons they're paid so much is due to the lack of competition. The AMA makes it almost impossible for a foreign Dr. to pass the test up here, and it's a good way of limiting the supply of Dr.'s.
I think the OP meant that some US doctors are over paid. Many after insurance and overhead are upper middle-class, at best.
The US system is broken, but not specifically due to how much docs are paid. It's tied up in knots with requirements that insurance companies impose. The need for referrals to see specialists in order for insurance to pay etc.
For those of us living closer to the Mexican Border, we don't give a hoot if they pay them a million a year. There's plenty of specialists across the Border who will see you for a fraction of the cost of Dr. in the U.S., and they're just as competent. Been doing it for years now!
One of the reasons they're paid so much is due to the lack of competition. The AMA makes it almost impossible for a foreign Dr. to pass the test up here, and it's a good way of limiting the supply of Dr.'s.
Ok this doesn't make sense. They can't pass the AMA so they practice in Mexico and you believe they are just as competent?
For those of us living closer to the Mexican Border, we don't give a hoot if they pay them a million a year. There's plenty of specialists across the Border who will see you for a fraction of the cost of Dr. in the U.S., and they're just as competent. Been doing it for years now!
One of the reasons they're paid so much is due to the lack of competition. The AMA makes it almost impossible for a foreign Dr. to pass the test up here, and it's a good way of limiting the supply of Dr.'s.
The AMA has nothing to do with licensing doctors. It is in favor of increasing the number of doctors. To do that, Congress has to fund more residency slots.
International medical graduates have to pass the same four part test (the AMA has nothing to do with the test) that American graduates do, and you cannot do that with simple memorization. They are held to the same standard as American graduates, too, and if they cannot pass it, no, they are not "just as competent" as an American grad.
And that is one of the reasons why our healthcare system is as screwed up as it is and why we won't embrace universal healthcare.
The biggest reason health care is so expensive in America has relatively little to do with overpaid doctors (no matter how true that may be) and a whole lot to do with the standard American lifestyle of very little natural movement (i.e. drive everywhere instead of walking/biking), processed foods, oversized portions, and weak family/social networks.
It turns out the world's healthiest populations don't use a lot of health care.
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