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You don't need an amendment! It needs to be defined by SCOTUS. Look at all the EO's Obama made that landed in SCOTUS and got overturned 9-0. If that's what happens, that's what happens but he didn't need an amendment, he just issued an EO and it forced it to SCOTUS.
SCOTUS will only define one of the hundreds of possible angles. Even on that they may punt as they have always done on most topics.
Also, wouldn't "originalists" and "constitutionalists" that are apparently on the SCOTUS (a solid majority now) be "non-activists" in such a case and say the Amendment should stand as written? It would seem to me to be so.
I think this is like wishing the flat earth society is correct. There are zero odds of the SCOTUS covering all the bases on this one in one or two cases.....AND, it makes perfect sense that the SCOTUS would leave such a strong Amendment alone.
You don't need an amendment! It needs to be defined by SCOTUS. Look at all the EO's Obama made that landed in SCOTUS and got overturned 9-0. If that's what happens, that's what happens but he didn't need an amendment, he just issued an EO and it forced it to SCOTUS.
You have just proved my point. If the EO is considered unconstitutional by the court then its struck down. To have a change in the actual law versus a change in practice of the law are two different things. The EO refers to the practice of the law. If Trump's EO is struck down as unconstitutional under the 14th, then its struck down. In contrast, the Sup Ct does not strike down amendments to the Constitution, it has no power to do so.
So, being the child of two immigrants, is the Donald going to step down from office and leave the nation.
Please don't be obtuse. His parents had naturalized before he was born. They were both US citizens at the time of his birth.
The ignorance in this thread is eye-opening. And not in a good way. Too many people simply have NO clue about US History, etc. There are actually archived legal records. I've posted examples of quite a few of them. There's a lot of NPC "feeling" going on in this thread, and very little critical thinking. It's frustrating. No wonder Americans agree on so little. So many people are completely bereft of knowledge and facts.
I actually had someone tell me on the illegal immigration board that the 14th Amendment (1868) guaranteed birthright US citizenship to everyone born in the US. When I asked him why that "guaranteed birthright" wasn't extended to Native Americans until more than 50 years later (1924) even though they had been subject to Federal Laws, Federal prosecution, and Federal Courts for decades by then, he couldn't answer. He just simply had NO clue about the actual legal history of the 14th Amendment. None. He didn't know Native Americans and the US-born children of Aliens were excluded from birthright US citizenship from the very beginning. That fact is backed up by Federal Legislation and Federal Government rulings made even after the 14th Amendment was ratified.
What is "permission"? If you come in as a Seasonal Worker at Mar-a-logo and have a child while here, did you have "permission" to generate a new US Citizen...just because you worked cheap for 4 months?
The exact same question would then pertain to those on tourist visits...or on multi-year assignments here for foreign companies (BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, etc. - all in SC, right?).......?????
WHO DECIDES?
See, that's the kicker here. You seem to say it is one question but it is 100's of questions if not thousands. Are the Russians here on a tourist visa covered? Well, they are right now:
You could list cases all day every day. There will be literally MILLIONS of them. Dad is from Mexico, Mom from USA....but Mom was divorced twice and I am the son of blah, blah, blah
But mom says she was living here but we don't have the utility bills or voting records, you see...she lives off the grid.
You'd need to have a Police State to deal with this....and I don't put that past many of the current supporters of government by EO.
Oh, I have seen situations in Florida. Mom is a US Citizen going back many generations. Dad is a migrant worker in the fields. They are not married.
The opposite situation would be worse. Let's say that unmarried Mommy is the non-citizen,but Daddy is a US Citizen. Who's' your Daddy? Prove it. Maury would be getting a whole new lineup for DNA testing.
Absolute nightmare unless Trumps wants BOTH parents to be citizens, be they illegals or legal residents.
That is the opinion of some congressman, until the SC rules all you have is opinion. They may have had intent but the words are quite broad. Its an imperfect document that needs updating but congress has been unable to pass any such legislation.
Isn't it great that Trump just seated Kavanaugh so we now have the full court to rule on it.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 22 days ago)
35,707 posts, read 18,065,864 times
Reputation: 50764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone
End this scam now.
The 14th amendment was expressly intended to give the rights of citizenship to American slaves, NOT illegal immigrants.
If that's what Harris honestly intended, not to include children of people visiting legally or illegally, then he should have put that clause in there, especially since he obviously knew it was a bone of contention at the time.
1. President Trump actually believes he can amend the constitution with an executive order
OR
2. President Trump knows this isn't possible, but sees it as a way to rile up his base and ensure that they vote R next week, and that they don't have enough intelligence to actually read the constitution and realize this promise is impossible.
I vote for #2
OR
3. Trump believes the Constitution does not say that those born to illegals have birthright citizenship and the courts have never ruled on the status of those born to illegals.
It is within the power of the President to issue executive orders and the power of Congress to pass legislation. It is then within the power of the courts to decide if they are legal and constitutional.
I'm old enough to remember when Republicans, and many here on CD, warned President Obama to be judicious in his usage of Executive Orders. Indeed, President Trump frequently tweeted (as a private citizen) his disapproval of E.O.'s.
However, I agree with the thought that 1) Mr. Trump is lying when he said that attorneys in the White House told him that such an executive order would be Constitutional; and 2) Mr. Trump is merely stating this as a political ploy to get his 'base excited' (which it certainly has) before the election.
The problem, as I see it, is that Mr. Trump's base is already 'on base' with him. Such pronouncements, however, may move more voters to the Democrats side of the ballot.
After all, you do have quite a few people in this country whom are 'first generation' citizens, meaning, their parents were not citizens. Indeed, some of the more thoughtful people will think that such an order, if issued two generations ago, would have prevented their own grandparents and parents from achieving citizenship upon birth.
Even if such an order is signed by Mr. Trump, I doubt that even the Conservative Supreme Court would uphold it, unless the five Justices throw out any semblance of neutrality (which, I suppose, is not impossible; however, I feel that, at the least, Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Gorsuch would join the four liberal justices; indeed, even Justice Alito, himself the son of an immigrant, may have some qualms).
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