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I've had healthcare workers, including nurses, tell me some pretty insane things, so I wouldn't necessarily say that one nurse insisting that she doesn't want a flu shot because of "health reasons" and then getting the shot after all really means anything at all.
Interesting that you don't believe the vast majority of doctors and other healthcare providers who advise their patients to get a flu shot but you do believe one random nurse who didn't want to get one (but wasn't so opposed to it that she would quit her job once told that that was a condition of employment).
Everyone can do what they want, but when they say things like, "nobody knows what's in them," or "people are dropping dead from getting a flu shot," or "I caught the flu from the flu shot," it's obvious that they don't really know what they're talking about in the slightest.
When your job can hinge on a vaccine with a rate of 18% ish some years we have a problem, and it's bigger than the flu.
A bit long-winded, but if you feel up to it, give it a read.
I think most of us on here are in your camp. I agree with most of what you have said. I do understand how some who dig deep into the flu vaccine to find answers and find a pretty large wall to climb to get real answers to start doubting the science, in reality, the company hiring the scientists.
For example, you look into reported side effects to the flu vaccine and you find VAERS after sifting through a lot. You find thousands of reports on VAERS, and about 15% of them are serious. The information is there, but sort of hidden in plain sight. It takes a lot of work to find these reports and although doctors are advised to report them, a lot of doctors do not.
One of the odd things about the VAERS system is the mass underreporting of adverse effects, this can lead to a false sense security in vaccine safety and an erroneous assumption for most people that the benefits of vaccination really outweigh the risks, which most assume is just the old "sore" arm.
What does the CDC say about the VAERS system? Our Passive surveillance systems, VAERS is subject to multiple limitations, underreporting, reporting of temporal associations and unconfirmed diagnoses, a lack of denominator data and unbiased comparison groups. So because of these limitations, determining causal associations between vaccines and adverse events from VAERS reports in most cases are not possible.
The institution of medicine has been telling them for years that they need to fix the inadequate information and none in some cases. So, they went to another system trial with Pilgrim Healthcare, Harvard. Out of only 376,452 individuals that received a vaccine at Pligram, their automated system identified 35,570 possible adverse reactions in three years. Compare that to the 30,000 VAERS was reporting for the entire United States a year and there is a serious discrepancy. VAERS was severely underreporting.
Then you might wonder why do they have VAERS? Why not just complain to the company? Well, now it gets interesting. When a vaccine is properly prepared and is accompanied by proper directions and warnings, lawsuits over its side effects are not allowed under the 1986 law.
So, in laymen's terms, you can't sue the drug company. Even if your child has had a seizure from the vaccine and has a lifetime of suffering from it, you're out of luck. They can't be touched and we have a "special" vaccine court and they fund a "special" compensation program for vaccine injuries. They avoid costly litigation this way, well great, but wait, that leaves no incentive to make the product better.
So, now things are sounding a bit more creepy. It goes on and on, you start to wonder why they make it so difficult. Then, you weigh out what advantages vs risks for yourself and get the deed done.
Most leave the experience with a normal bit of skepticism, but some leave it and become anti-vax. It depends on the individual, and how much they dig up, and how they interpret it.
Those who promote it by bashing others, blaming others and demanding mandates to save the children have the same problem as those who refuse to give it a chance. I avoid both camps if I can because obsessing one way or the other tells me more about the person than their advice.
There is an underlying reality to life, common sense, and basic mathematics (the old 2+2=4 variety).
1) if a thing is beneficial, you won’t need to force compliance by law. Beneficial things generate their own popularity, and voluntary compliance.
2) when a specific industry needs laws to exempt themselves from the standard product liability virtually every other industry must assume, thinking people have no rational alternative than to ASSUME such extraordinary protection is needed .... meaning ... there are significant product liability issues related to such products.
3) when an industry is exempted from legal, monetary and criminal consequences for harm caused by their products, along with laws requiring the public acceptance and purchase of their products ... and their own separate legal system, separate from the system applying to everyone and everything else, which decides who is awarded damages caused by said products that include disclaimers that such awarded compensation is not admitting the damage was caused by the product .... you have one conclusion:
The entire scheme is a complete fraud, of epic, and unprecedented proportions.
The vast majority of people who refuse to get a flu shot are the raging liberals who also believe that infant vaccinations cause autism, that 'natural' toothpaste is good for their teeth, yet fluoride in their water is bad for them, that GMOs are bad for them, that fracking is a net negative, etc.
In other words, liberals are anti-science and will believe any trend that they can jump on at any moment. The poor things simply cannot help themselves, as they are programmed to try to fit in with their contemporaries.
I got a flu shot this year for the first time in almost ten years. The shot didn't hurt, but the site of the shot hurt mildly for a week. the injection was free courtesy of my insurance company.
if it doesn't work and I contract the flu so be it, but all the better if it does. why suffer illness or subject others I might pass the virus to for fear of a little injection?
A bit long-winded, but if you feel up to it, give it a read.
I think most of us on here are in your camp. I agree with most of what you have said. I do understand how some who dig deep into the flu vaccine to find answers and find a pretty large wall to climb to get real answers to start doubting the science, in reality, the company hiring the scientists.
For example, you look into reported side effects to the flu vaccine and you find VAERS after sifting through a lot. You find thousands of reports on VAERS, and about 15% of them are serious. The information is there, but sort of hidden in plain sight. It takes a lot of work to find these reports and although doctors are advised to report them, a lot of doctors do not.
One of the odd things about the VAERS system is the mass underreporting of adverse effects, this can lead to a false sense security in vaccine safety and an erroneous assumption for most people that the benefits of vaccination really outweigh the risks, which most assume is just the old "sore" arm.
What does the CDC say about the VAERS system? Our Passive surveillance systems, VAERS is subject to multiple limitations, underreporting, reporting of temporal associations and unconfirmed diagnoses, a lack of denominator data and unbiased comparison groups. So because of these limitations, determining causal associations between vaccines and adverse events from VAERS reports in most cases are not possible.
The institution of medicine has been telling them for years that they need to fix the inadequate information and none in some cases. So, they went to another system trial with Pilgrim Healthcare, Harvard. Out of only 376,452 individuals that received a vaccine at Pligram, their automated system identified 35,570 possible adverse reactions in three years. Compare that to the 30,000 VAERS was reporting for the entire United States a year and there is a serious discrepancy. VAERS was severely underreporting.
Then you might wonder why do they have VAERS? Why not just complain to the company? Well, now it gets interesting. When a vaccine is properly prepared and is accompanied by proper directions and warnings, lawsuits over its side effects are not allowed under the 1986 law.
So, in laymen's terms, you can't sue the drug company. Even if your child has had a seizure from the vaccine and has a lifetime of suffering from it, you're out of luck. They can't be touched and we have a "special" vaccine court and they fund a "special" compensation program for vaccine injuries. They avoid costly litigation this way, well great, but wait, that leaves no incentive to make the product better.
So, now things are sounding a bit more creepy. It goes on and on, you start to wonder why they make it so difficult. Then, you weigh out what advantages vs risks for yourself and get the deed done.
Most leave the experience with a normal bit of skepticism, but some leave it and become anti-vax. It depends on the individual, and how much they dig up, and how they interpret it.
Those who promote it by bashing others, blaming others and demanding mandates to save the children have the same problem as those who refuse to give it a chance. I avoid both camps if I can because obsessing one way or the other tells me more about the person than their advice.
Mandatory reading for anyone who thinks vaccines are 100% safe and fully believe the media reports.
Hidden in plain sight-ish. Flawed reporting. Secret court system. No manufacturer liability.
Again, even in the worst years, it's better than 0.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound
The vast majority of people who refuse to get a flu shot are the raging liberals who also believe that infant vaccinations cause autism, that 'natural' toothpaste is good for their teeth, yet fluoride in their water is bad for them, that GMOs are bad for them, that fracking is a net negative, etc.
In other words, liberals are anti-science and will believe any trend that they can jump on at any moment. The poor things simply cannot help themselves, as they are programmed to try to fit in with their contemporaries.
Wrong. Antivaxism spans the political spectrum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Mandatory reading for anyone who thinks vaccines are 100% safe and fully believe the media reports.
Hidden in plain sight-ish. Flawed reporting. Secret court system. No manufacturer liability.
Excellent post.
Excellent post, my derriere! I know we're not supposed to discuss credentials of posters, but why should we believe a poster on City-Data whose credentials in health care are unknown at best?
It's untrue that there is no manufacturer liability. See this: https://violentmetaphors.com/2013/11...lin-mcroberts/ "Why Anti-vaxers Hate the NVICP and Just What is it Anyway" "The NVICP is a special court set up by Congress for people who claim they were injured by vaccines. Instead of having to sue the vaccine makers, which is an incredibly expensive, difficult, and time-consuming process, those plaintiffs get fast-tracked through a non-adversarial system. That means that instead of making them fight with the vaccine makers’ lawyers, the government pays for the plaintiffs’ counsel and works with them to determine whether compensation is appropriate. Plaintiffs in the NVICP win their cases much more often than plaintiffs in the normal product-liability courts, and even if they lose they don’t have to pay for their own lawyers."
Plus much more. And to repeat, no one who is pro-vax says that vaccines are 100% safe, but they are very close to that.
Again, even in the worst years, it's better than 0.
Wrong. Antivaxism spans the political spectrum.
Excellent post, my derriere! I know we're not supposed to discuss credentials of posters, but why should we believe a poster on City-Data whose credentials in health care are unknown at best?
It's untrue that there is no manufacturer liability. See this: https://violentmetaphors.com/2013/11...lin-mcroberts/ "Why Anti-vaxers Hate the NVICP and Just What is it Anyway" "The NVICP is a special court set up by Congress for people who claim they were injured by vaccines. Instead of having to sue the vaccine makers, which is an incredibly expensive, difficult, and time-consuming process, those plaintiffs get fast-tracked through a non-adversarial system. That means that instead of making them fight with the vaccine makers’ lawyers, the government pays for the plaintiffs’ counsel and works with them to determine whether compensation is appropriate. Plaintiffs in the NVICP win their cases much more often than plaintiffs in the normal product-liability courts, and even if they lose they don’t have to pay for their own lawyers."
Plus much more. And to repeat, no one who is pro-vax says that vaccines are 100% safe, but they are very close to that.
Oh really? lol That special court was a result of Congress getting the specific request from pharmaceutical companies who threatened to stop making vaccines and you know it.
They wouldn't make them without product liability protection. So they blackmailed Congress and got a special deal.
Organizations who represented pediatricians who were also worried about giving childhood vaccines in fear they'd be liable if someone got injured.
You can at least be honest. It's not hard to find "how" it came about. The companies that made the vaccine were tired of getting sued.
There are vaccines I insist on, due to the evidence that supports the vaccine for my known medical needs but the flu vaccine is not one of them.
Due to some variants in my immune-regulating DNA; I am at risk for a significant adverse reaction to both the Influenza & HepB vaccines but I am a non-responder to the Measles vaccine.
Before direct-to-consumer DNA analysis was available, I experienced two adverse events following immunization & two different children of mine have as well.
I also experienced that following these events, the "herd" that I so responsibly protected went on about their lives while I was left with the aftermath. Some things just can't be fixed.
I do not feel one ounce of obligation to vaccinate in spite of the known-but-not-disclosed risk but everyone else is free to ante on up to the table & place their bets.
Oh really? lol That special court was a result of Congress getting the specific request from pharmaceutical companies who threatened to stop making vaccines and you know it.
They wouldn't make them without product liability protection. So they blackmailed Congress and got a special deal.
Organizations who represented pediatricians who were also worried about giving childhood vaccines in fear they'd be liable if someone got injured.
You can at least be honest. It's not hard to find "how" it came about. The companies that made the vaccine were tired of getting sued.
I am being honest, and I really resent you saying I'm not. That's about your 6th personal attack against me. Companies were getting sued, for large amounts because it's fairly easy to convince a jury of lay people that a vaccine caused an injury, even if there is no scientific evidence for it. I never heard that about pediatricians and I was working in vaccines at the time. Do you have a citation? Ditto for a citation about "blackmailing" Congress. That antivaccine guru Barbara Loe Fisher helped write the law.
18 other countries also have some version of the NVICP, including many of the "single payer" countries some of you people was so rhapsodic about.
So, over 40% of Americans refuse to get a flu shot.
I am one of those 40%. Why?
I don't know... I don't care. I get them. My family gets them. Good luck to you...
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